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> Here's a rather strange example (note that in this video an officer does incorrectly assert that my video recording him is against the law - when I calmly cor

> Here's a rather strange example (note that in this video an officer does incorrectly assert that my video recording him is against the law - when I calmly correct him and move on, he doesn't say another word about it): > https://vimeo.com/2230232 https://vimeo.com/2230232 I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but after watching the video, I wanted to let you know that you definitely do sound like a smart aleck when talking to officers (e.g. "well, we both know that in the real world there is such a thing"... or, "well, fundamentally, I...")... maybe you weren't "disrespectful" in your choice of words, but I can't say the same about your tone and approach. It seems like you're willing to give officers as hard a time as possible just because it's not outright illegal. Don't expect a nice reaction when you do that. They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it.

MagnumOpus 10y ago
You are basically saying that he is guilty of Contempt of Cop and therefore officers "giving him a hard time" (i.e. illegal harassment, arbitrarily detention etc) is normal and to be expected. You are part of the problem here.
- wfunction 10y ago
  > You are basically saying that he is guilty of Contempt of Cop and therefore officers "giving him a hard time" (i.e. illegal harassment, arbitrarily detention etc) is normal and to be expected. You are part of the problem here. That's not what I was saying... but I'm not going to waste my time responding to strawman arguments. Be my guest and keep exercising your right to be a jerk to everyone around you.
jMyles 10y ago
> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. I can't imagine what you're talking about. I didn't want to be there in the first place. If they were running out of patience, all they needed to do was end the encounter. I explained very clearly - left absolutely no doubt - that I was not going to provide identification. I don't know how much more clearly it can be stated. The officer was plainly playing dumb over the matter of what type of identification he expected, and yes, in the real world, we know that he meant a government-issued ID, almost surely a driver's license. He was plain-out wrong in his approach, and frankly I think mine was pretty spot on.
- wfunction 10y ago
  >> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. > I can't imagine what you're talking about. You don't need to imagine. I explained it very clearly in the rest of the paragraph: You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time. Maybe you didn't read it?
  - jMyles 10y ago
    > Maybe you didn't read it? I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. So, to be clearer: I meant that I can't imagine what "patience" you are talking about. There was no test or saturation of patience; all these people needed to do was walk away. Simple. They weren't a captive audience, patiently waiting for something to happen. They were doing the wrong thing and obviously uncomfortable with themselves over it.
    - wfunction 10y ago
      >> Maybe you didn't read it? > I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. Ad hominem? I'm observing that you're still not reading this, because otherwise it means you're totally ignoring it: >> You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time You just keep bashing their behavior, whereas I'm talking about yours. Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what?
      - jMyles 10y ago
        > Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what? Yes. I'm doing just that. I was a bit nervous; maybe my conduct wasn't perfect. But I was not a "smart aleck" or in any sense demeaning to these people. I'm proud of how I handled myself.
        wfunction 10y ago
        Have you tried asking a few non-STEM folks (whom you don't already know) what they think of your attitude in the video? To me your attitude was very much the condescending "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." attitude that a lot of us nerds have at some point in our lives (been there). People who are successful learn how to convey the same thing without that attitude. It seems like you're just not realizing it and you're stubbornly refusing to believe others when they tell you you have attitude, despite the fact that it's hard for people to tell when they're acting like jerks. For your own sake, ask a few random people whom you don't know, and no, the people commenting on your video (including me) do not form an unbiased sample.
crusso 10y ago
I totally disagree. I'm a law and order type of libertarian and I was ready to see jMyles being obnoxious in the video based upon your comment, but he wasn't at all. That police officer was totally out of line. I'm surprised jMyles was as calm and polite as he was in the video. I would have just kept repeating "Am I being detained?" over and over until they either let me go or until they took me in. Those officers were being total tools.
- wfunction 10y ago
  The funny thing is, even if I were to agree with you on the police officers, it would still be besides the point. I'm saying jMyles was saturating their patience by being an annoying smart aleck, and you're arguing back by saying the police officers were... tools? As if somehow that contradicts what I said? jMyles could've been way more respectful in his tone than he was (and no, that need not have included showing his ID). His word choice was fine, yes, but his attitude and tone wasn't. You don't need to lecture police with a smart aleck attitude in order to assert your rights. Could he have been more rude? Of course. Could the officers have treated him more nicely? Sure. Does either of them contradict the fact that was showing an attitude and thereby ticking them off? No.
  - crusso 10y ago
    No, my observation that the officers were tools is vitally dependent upon the fact that jMyles did and said nothing wrong. Nothing at all. The only way that you could think that he was saturating the patience of that officer is if you conceded that said officer has a total right to use his authority to detain jMyles and to demand things from jMyles that he had absolutely no legal right to demand. If you think that officers should be bullies above the law, then sure, the victim of the bully can always be viewed as saturating the bully's patience in some way. jMyles was not a "smart aleck" in any sense of the phrase that I know. He said nothing flip or rude to the officers. It seems like you're mistaking his attempt to be precise in his language as instead being a "smart aleck". Maybe you expected him to just roll over and show his ID while telling the officer where he was coming from and where he was going to? In my opinion jMyles went out of his way over and over to express his respect for the officers and sympathy for their position. I thought that his behavior was practically fawning except for the fact that he was sticking to his right to not be forced to provide ID or to divulge what he was doing, where he was coming from, or where he was going to.

MagnumOpus 10y ago

You are basically saying that he is guilty of Contempt of Cop and therefore officers "giving him a hard time" (i.e. illegal harassment, arbitrarily detention etc) is normal and to be expected. You are part of the problem here.

wfunction 10y ago
> You are basically saying that he is guilty of Contempt of Cop and therefore officers "giving him a hard time" (i.e. illegal harassment, arbitrarily detention etc) is normal and to be expected. You are part of the problem here. That's not what I was saying... but I'm not going to waste my time responding to strawman arguments. Be my guest and keep exercising your right to be a jerk to everyone around you.

jMyles 10y ago

> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. I can't imagine what you're talking about. I didn't want to be there in the first place. If they were running out of patience, all they needed to do was end the encounter. I explained very clearly - left absolutely no doubt - that I was not going to provide identification. I don't know how much more clearly it can be stated. The officer was plainly playing dumb over the matter of what type of identification he expected, and yes, in the real world, we know that he meant a government-issued ID, almost surely a driver's license. He was plain-out wrong in his approach, and frankly I think mine was pretty spot on.

wfunction 10y ago
>> They had quite a bit of patience with you and you saturated it. > I can't imagine what you're talking about. You don't need to imagine. I explained it very clearly in the rest of the paragraph: You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time. Maybe you didn't read it?
- jMyles 10y ago
  > Maybe you didn't read it? I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. So, to be clearer: I meant that I can't imagine what "patience" you are talking about. There was no test or saturation of patience; all these people needed to do was walk away. Simple. They weren't a captive audience, patiently waiting for something to happen. They were doing the wrong thing and obviously uncomfortable with themselves over it.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    >> Maybe you didn't read it? > I see - these are just simple ad hominems. Got it. Ad hominem? I'm observing that you're still not reading this, because otherwise it means you're totally ignoring it: >> You sounded like a smart aleck lecturing them the entire time You just keep bashing their behavior, whereas I'm talking about yours. Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what?
    - jMyles 10y ago
      > Are you denying that you sound like a smart aleck, or what? Yes. I'm doing just that. I was a bit nervous; maybe my conduct wasn't perfect. But I was not a "smart aleck" or in any sense demeaning to these people. I'm proud of how I handled myself.
      - wfunction 10y ago
        Have you tried asking a few non-STEM folks (whom you don't already know) what they think of your attitude in the video? To me your attitude was very much the condescending "well, ACTUALLY, you're wrong because..." or "well, TECHNICALLY, I'm right because..." attitude that a lot of us nerds have at some point in our lives (been there). People who are successful learn how to convey the same thing without that attitude. It seems like you're just not realizing it and you're stubbornly refusing to believe others when they tell you you have attitude, despite the fact that it's hard for people to tell when they're acting like jerks. For your own sake, ask a few random people whom you don't know, and no, the people commenting on your video (including me) do not form an unbiased sample.

crusso 10y ago

I totally disagree. I'm a law and order type of libertarian and I was ready to see jMyles being obnoxious in the video based upon your comment, but he wasn't at all. That police officer was totally out of line. I'm surprised jMyles was as calm and polite as he was in the video. I would have just kept repeating "Am I being detained?" over and over until they either let me go or until they took me in. Those officers were being total tools.

wfunction 10y ago
The funny thing is, even if I were to agree with you on the police officers, it would still be besides the point. I'm saying jMyles was saturating their patience by being an annoying smart aleck, and you're arguing back by saying the police officers were... tools? As if somehow that contradicts what I said? jMyles could've been way more respectful in his tone than he was (and no, that need not have included showing his ID). His word choice was fine, yes, but his attitude and tone wasn't. You don't need to lecture police with a smart aleck attitude in order to assert your rights. Could he have been more rude? Of course. Could the officers have treated him more nicely? Sure. Does either of them contradict the fact that was showing an attitude and thereby ticking them off? No.
- crusso 10y ago
  No, my observation that the officers were tools is vitally dependent upon the fact that jMyles did and said nothing wrong. Nothing at all. The only way that you could think that he was saturating the patience of that officer is if you conceded that said officer has a total right to use his authority to detain jMyles and to demand things from jMyles that he had absolutely no legal right to demand. If you think that officers should be bullies above the law, then sure, the victim of the bully can always be viewed as saturating the bully's patience in some way. jMyles was not a "smart aleck" in any sense of the phrase that I know. He said nothing flip or rude to the officers. It seems like you're mistaking his attempt to be precise in his language as instead being a "smart aleck". Maybe you expected him to just roll over and show his ID while telling the officer where he was coming from and where he was going to? In my opinion jMyles went out of his way over and over to express his respect for the officers and sympathy for their position. I thought that his behavior was practically fawning except for the fact that he was sticking to his right to not be forced to provide ID or to divulge what he was doing, where he was coming from, or where he was going to.