7 ms·

While I'm sure it happens, is there any indication this happens on a large enough scale to actually worry about it? Seems like they'd just get more bad press wh

While I'm sure it happens, is there any indication this happens on a large enough scale to actually worry about it? Seems like they'd just get more bad press when you record them harassing you because you recorded them the first time.

mulmen 10y ago
What makes you think the police care about bad press?
- ZoF 10y ago
  Perhaps the fact that they're human? I interface with my local police at least once a month, not for recalcitrant reasons; they are good people. Is this an anecdote? Yes. Do I like seeing police as a whole cast as evil? No.
  - oxide 10y ago
    I didn't mean to paint with a wide brush, so to speak. I know police as a whole are not evil. I've been let off the hook by police quite a few times, had an officer give me a ride home when I was stranded after walking several miles as a teenager, etc. Police retaliation happens, though. Corruption exists, etc. It's not a huge stretch to imagine local police retaliating against someone who whips out a cell phone. Even if the courts won't convict that person of a crime, police can very much exact revenge just by paying more attention to you than they might have otherwise. Stopping you without cause, searching you without cause, detaining you without reason. There are plenty of ways I could imagine retaliating against a citizen if I was corrupted/otherwise morally compromised, empowered as a police officer, and had a grudge. tl;dr: I'm not casting all cops as evil, I'm stupid, but not that stupid. I'm only speculating that this court decision might not stop an officer with a grudge from retaliating against a civilian. It's perfectly logical, and wasn't intended as a generalization against police. I'm not a cop-hater.
    - lbatx 10y ago
      Because a cop was nice to you once doesn't mean he isn't a bad apple. Just means he was nice to you once.
  - mahyarm 10y ago
    Every group will have bad apples, it's statistically inevitable. What matters is how bad apples are dealt with. Because if they are not dealt with properly, 'the bad apple spoils the bunch'. In police / court land, bad apple pruning isn't good enough. On top of that the stakes are high and their are legal malincentives that encourage the government to do the wrong things. It's harder to do bad apple pruning with police because of the risk category and their job responsibilities.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not claim that all (or even any) police are evil or inhuman. I do not think "How will this look in the paper?" calculates into whether or not an officer issues me a ticket for speeding or lets me go with a warning or attempts to search my car. I don't think it is considered at any point by individual officers, including during the use of force. I think the decision is based more on behavior such as if I am evasive or cooperative. I am far more likely to get a warning if I am polite rather than argumentative.
  - zo1 10y ago
    Perfectly reasonable, normal, "good"-looking people can become very bad very quickly. Just because they act decent, polite, etc for 99% of their day, doesn't mean that they're not capable of behaving differently. This is the nature of criminals, as well. They're fine for the most part, until they break a law. The real problem is that we're allowing a parallel "judicial system" to exist in the first place. One that selectively applies certain rules to certain groups, which is in this case, the police.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  When it gets them fired. And if it especially makes them hard to hire again somewhere else.
  - jaredklewis 10y ago
    Cops in the US regularly shoot unarmed civilians and get off with desk duty. The idea that a cop will lose his job for harassing someone is wishful thinking.
    - schrodinger 10y ago
      I really doubt thats true. Got any numbers? I'd bet it happens very infrequently, and is very newsworthy when it happens. Still not remotely ok though…
    - mahyarm 10y ago
      That's why they do it, because they don't get fired. They'll start caring a lot more when they lose their jobs and suffer penalties, and it's not hard for it to happen when they do that.
      - SturgeonsLaw 10y ago
        I just think it's incredible that the norm has become so skewed that suggesting that the consequences for beating or killing someone be losing your job are seen as unrealistic.
      - rblatz 10y ago
        Cops have tough jobs, the vast majority of police officers mean well and are good people trying to serve their community. I think people in threads like this forget that. But like any group of people there are assholes, we need to have a zero tolerance policy for police officers that violate rights. And for egregious situations we need to hold them even more accountable. Police aren't the law but an agent and servant of it.
        10y ago
ubernostrum 10y ago
First of all, this kind of thing happening on any scale is something to worry about. Second, considering that we know there are instances of it, we're faced with a question. Which is more likely? 1. The officer(s) in question suddenly and for no discernible reason completely snapped and committed actions they knew were immoral and illegal and which they had been trained and conditioned by the culture of their department never to do under any circumstances, or 2. The officer(s) in question were trained and worked their entire careers in a culture in which abuse of authority was routine, accepted and unquestioned, to such a degree that they felt it was the natural course of things and that no significant consequences would fall on them. Time and again, investigation of corrupt and abusive police departments has turned up evidence for case (2) and not for case (1). We should be assuming case (2) unless and until we see significant evidence otherwise.

mulmen 10y ago

What makes you think the police care about bad press?

ZoF 10y ago
Perhaps the fact that they're human? I interface with my local police at least once a month, not for recalcitrant reasons; they are good people. Is this an anecdote? Yes. Do I like seeing police as a whole cast as evil? No.
- oxide 10y ago
  I didn't mean to paint with a wide brush, so to speak. I know police as a whole are not evil. I've been let off the hook by police quite a few times, had an officer give me a ride home when I was stranded after walking several miles as a teenager, etc. Police retaliation happens, though. Corruption exists, etc. It's not a huge stretch to imagine local police retaliating against someone who whips out a cell phone. Even if the courts won't convict that person of a crime, police can very much exact revenge just by paying more attention to you than they might have otherwise. Stopping you without cause, searching you without cause, detaining you without reason. There are plenty of ways I could imagine retaliating against a citizen if I was corrupted/otherwise morally compromised, empowered as a police officer, and had a grudge. tl;dr: I'm not casting all cops as evil, I'm stupid, but not that stupid. I'm only speculating that this court decision might not stop an officer with a grudge from retaliating against a civilian. It's perfectly logical, and wasn't intended as a generalization against police. I'm not a cop-hater.
  - lbatx 10y ago
    Because a cop was nice to you once doesn't mean he isn't a bad apple. Just means he was nice to you once.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  Every group will have bad apples, it's statistically inevitable. What matters is how bad apples are dealt with. Because if they are not dealt with properly, 'the bad apple spoils the bunch'. In police / court land, bad apple pruning isn't good enough. On top of that the stakes are high and their are legal malincentives that encourage the government to do the wrong things. It's harder to do bad apple pruning with police because of the risk category and their job responsibilities.
- mulmen 10y ago
  Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not claim that all (or even any) police are evil or inhuman. I do not think "How will this look in the paper?" calculates into whether or not an officer issues me a ticket for speeding or lets me go with a warning or attempts to search my car. I don't think it is considered at any point by individual officers, including during the use of force. I think the decision is based more on behavior such as if I am evasive or cooperative. I am far more likely to get a warning if I am polite rather than argumentative.
- zo1 10y ago
  Perfectly reasonable, normal, "good"-looking people can become very bad very quickly. Just because they act decent, polite, etc for 99% of their day, doesn't mean that they're not capable of behaving differently. This is the nature of criminals, as well. They're fine for the most part, until they break a law. The real problem is that we're allowing a parallel "judicial system" to exist in the first place. One that selectively applies certain rules to certain groups, which is in this case, the police.
mahyarm 10y ago
When it gets them fired. And if it especially makes them hard to hire again somewhere else.
- jaredklewis 10y ago
  Cops in the US regularly shoot unarmed civilians and get off with desk duty. The idea that a cop will lose his job for harassing someone is wishful thinking.
  - schrodinger 10y ago
    I really doubt thats true. Got any numbers? I'd bet it happens very infrequently, and is very newsworthy when it happens. Still not remotely ok though…
  - mahyarm 10y ago
    That's why they do it, because they don't get fired. They'll start caring a lot more when they lose their jobs and suffer penalties, and it's not hard for it to happen when they do that.
    - SturgeonsLaw 10y ago
      I just think it's incredible that the norm has become so skewed that suggesting that the consequences for beating or killing someone be losing your job are seen as unrealistic.
    - rblatz 10y ago
      Cops have tough jobs, the vast majority of police officers mean well and are good people trying to serve their community. I think people in threads like this forget that. But like any group of people there are assholes, we need to have a zero tolerance policy for police officers that violate rights. And for egregious situations we need to hold them even more accountable. Police aren't the law but an agent and servant of it.
      - 10y ago

ubernostrum 10y ago

First of all, this kind of thing happening on any scale is something to worry about. Second, considering that we know there are instances of it, we're faced with a question. Which is more likely? 1. The officer(s) in question suddenly and for no discernible reason completely snapped and committed actions they knew were immoral and illegal and which they had been trained and conditioned by the culture of their department never to do under any circumstances, or 2. The officer(s) in question were trained and worked their entire careers in a culture in which abuse of authority was routine, accepted and unquestioned, to such a degree that they felt it was the natural course of things and that no significant consequences would fall on them. Time and again, investigation of corrupt and abusive police departments has turned up evidence for case (2) and not for case (1). We should be assuming case (2) unless and until we see significant evidence otherwise.