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> I think that recording the police fits in this category. It is obviously completely legal and works to your distinct advantage. This is true, but be prepared

> I think that recording the police fits in this category. It is obviously completely legal and works to your distinct advantage. This is true, but be prepared to deal with an angry-acting man with a gun and the presumed right to put you in jail and take your stuff (via civil asset forfeiture). Most cops are decent, overworked public servants, but they're also trained to exhibit "cop rage" when they feel a lack of control.

jMyles 10y ago
But which scenario is more likely to foment such an encounter? The one where the officer thinks he's being recorded? Or the one where he doesn't?
- username223 10y ago
  Pointing a camera at an officer is likely to cause him to become aggressive. I've had this happen when there was no danger to anyone involved, and no one was doing anything wrong, and it was intimidating as hell. In such a situation, you have to ask yourself: Do you know your precise rights? Are you willing to spend some time locked up and take your chances dealing with the law? Sadly, it's often up to the civilian to "de-escalate" the situation.
  - jMyles 10y ago
    > Pointing a camera at an officer is likely to cause him to become aggressive. Across dozens of encounters over the course of a decade, this has not been my experience whatsoever. I think that it also does not match the experience of the legal observer community ("green hats") who have filmed (or benefited from the filming of) thousands of police encounters in every major city in the USA over the past 20 years. Instead, it has been my experience that turning on a camera causes a far more pacific and professional approach to emerge from officers and also empowers officers in a supervisory position to keep better control over their subordinates.
    - username223 10y ago
      Interesting. I haven't had nearly as many encounters, but in my limited experience, pointing a camera at an officer is perceived as adversarial/hostile and increases tension. Sometimes it evidently leads to this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/02/cop-filmed-telling-motorist-he-wanted-to-beat-him-sic-dog-on-him/ Having a third party legal observer point the camera seems less likely to lead to escalation.
zhengyi13 10y ago
To be clear, do you mean police are as a matter of course explicitly trained to react with verbal and physical abuse as a tool of law enforcement, or that a tendency to escalate is a byproduct of their training? These seem very, very different to me, and in particular, if you assert it's the former, I'd appreciate evidence of that.
- username223 10y ago
  A tendency to escalate is probably a byproduct. For the rest, search for "verbal control." Most people aren't used to friendliness or anger applied tactically, so doing so can be effective for officers.
djsumdog 10y ago
Install an insta-streaming app that will live copy your video to either your own server or a service if it can get Internet. Test it. You should always film. They might get angry, and that's usually a sign you shouldn't stop filming. Having something that auto-transmits/saves your video might be the only thing that will help you later should they destroy your recording device. You might end up in jail, with harsh charges, but at least you have evidence you can present to a lawyer ... well that is if you can afford one.
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  Always be filming, and streaming to server is a good idea. I was detained about a year ago for walking at 12 a.m. with books--yes--I was shocked. It turned out to be a very young rookie, but a gun carring police officer. He caught me completely off guard. I literally thought he was bored of the night shift. Then I noticed his gun holster was un-snapped, we were in fog, and he was an idiot. I thought about bringing out my phone, but honestly, didn't want to provoke his guy. It just wasen't worth it. I did get his name when I left. I was thinking about an app that turns on the video of a phone whenever "Officer" is heard. (To those that dare to video, or complain about police business, make sure you go down to the station with a witness. Get a report, or just a business card of the officer you have a disagreement with. Tell them, "I need some kind of proof I made a complaint. I don't want any harrasement." You don't need to file a formal complaint. Build a paper trail. This only might be good advice for certain counties though.)

jMyles 10y ago

But which scenario is more likely to foment such an encounter? The one where the officer thinks he's being recorded? Or the one where he doesn't?

username223 10y ago
Pointing a camera at an officer is likely to cause him to become aggressive. I've had this happen when there was no danger to anyone involved, and no one was doing anything wrong, and it was intimidating as hell. In such a situation, you have to ask yourself: Do you know your precise rights? Are you willing to spend some time locked up and take your chances dealing with the law? Sadly, it's often up to the civilian to "de-escalate" the situation.
- jMyles 10y ago
  > Pointing a camera at an officer is likely to cause him to become aggressive. Across dozens of encounters over the course of a decade, this has not been my experience whatsoever. I think that it also does not match the experience of the legal observer community ("green hats") who have filmed (or benefited from the filming of) thousands of police encounters in every major city in the USA over the past 20 years. Instead, it has been my experience that turning on a camera causes a far more pacific and professional approach to emerge from officers and also empowers officers in a supervisory position to keep better control over their subordinates.
  - username223 10y ago
    Interesting. I haven't had nearly as many encounters, but in my limited experience, pointing a camera at an officer is perceived as adversarial/hostile and increases tension. Sometimes it evidently leads to this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/02/cop-filmed-telling-motorist-he-wanted-to-beat-him-sic-dog-on-him/ Having a third party legal observer point the camera seems less likely to lead to escalation.

zhengyi13 10y ago

To be clear, do you mean police are as a matter of course explicitly trained to react with verbal and physical abuse as a tool of law enforcement, or that a tendency to escalate is a byproduct of their training? These seem very, very different to me, and in particular, if you assert it's the former, I'd appreciate evidence of that.

username223 10y ago
A tendency to escalate is probably a byproduct. For the rest, search for "verbal control." Most people aren't used to friendliness or anger applied tactically, so doing so can be effective for officers.

djsumdog 10y ago

Install an insta-streaming app that will live copy your video to either your own server or a service if it can get Internet. Test it. You should always film. They might get angry, and that's usually a sign you shouldn't stop filming. Having something that auto-transmits/saves your video might be the only thing that will help you later should they destroy your recording device. You might end up in jail, with harsh charges, but at least you have evidence you can present to a lawyer ... well that is if you can afford one.

icantdrive55 10y ago
Always be filming, and streaming to server is a good idea. I was detained about a year ago for walking at 12 a.m. with books--yes--I was shocked. It turned out to be a very young rookie, but a gun carring police officer. He caught me completely off guard. I literally thought he was bored of the night shift. Then I noticed his gun holster was un-snapped, we were in fog, and he was an idiot. I thought about bringing out my phone, but honestly, didn't want to provoke his guy. It just wasen't worth it. I did get his name when I left. I was thinking about an app that turns on the video of a phone whenever "Officer" is heard. (To those that dare to video, or complain about police business, make sure you go down to the station with a witness. Get a report, or just a business card of the officer you have a disagreement with. Tell them, "I need some kind of proof I made a complaint. I don't want any harrasement." You don't need to file a formal complaint. Build a paper trail. This only might be good advice for certain counties though.)