4 ms·

We'd be better off with robotic dismantling and recycling than a repair culture, IMO. Repaired items are never as good as new. I'd much rather a future where my

by barrkel 10y ago

We'd be better off with robotic dismantling and recycling than a repair culture, IMO. Repaired items are never as good as new. I'd much rather a future where my car was dismantled and rebuilt overnight by robots than repaired overnight. Things degrade and wear out at different rates. The clock starts at zero when something is new, but when something breaks, the "mean time to failure" is all over the place for the components. At a certain point, you don't really own something old; instead, you're paying rent in the form of repairs. The intermittent availability starts to become stressful; you're never sure when the next thing will break or need repair, you can no longer rely on the thing. IMO the whole recycling religion is an historical blip. There's no long term need to focus on repairable, recyclable products; nor any need to separate out rubbish types etc. This is a resource allocation problem, and with legislation to embed the cost of dismantling and separation in the cost of something, I think it'll disappear.

adrianN 10y ago
You are aware that producing new things consumes many non-renewable resources that could be saved by a simple repair? Recycling is only a distant second when it comes to saving resources.
- barrkel 10y ago
  Most non-renewable resources are for energy generation; I think economics (i.e. price information) will solve this problem. The biggest challenge is ensuring that externalities are priced in correctly, and in ways that aren't politically corrupt or, too stickily protectionist for industries.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Repairing things requires labor, which also indirectly consumes many non-renewable resources (since the person supplying the labor will use their wages to buy new shiny things). As others have pointed out, the right way to address this is to put the correct price on using non-renewable resources, not to directly force re-use or repair, since the economic efficiency of doing that depends a lot on the specific item.
ofcrpls 10y ago
Companies can have a tiered pricing where tolerances for components vary for the price of replacement/rebuilding by the robots.
brightball 10y ago
I see what you're saying, but the mean time for failure for the whole at the moment is basically the failure time for the weakest part. For example, my son got an RC car for Christmas from my parents. It's a great car and he had a lot of fun driving it for about 3 days. He accidentally rammed it into a tree trunk and the cheap plastic gear that controlled the steering shattered. The car itself, should last a while but because one part broke the entire product is essentially a brick right now.
- permatech 10y ago
  >> The car itself, should last a while but because one part broke the entire product is essentially a brick right now. Because you won't take the time to fix it! What a waste!
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    Where do you go to buy a plastic gear for a RC car? Identifying a matching part and getting it is a task that probably most of us have become incapable of. I also believe that much of the infrastructure that made repairing things like this easier in the past has disappeared to a large part.
    - jpindar 10y ago
      There are hundreds of rc car parts sites, as well as robotics hobbyist shops, and industrial parts sites that carry generic plastic gears. If you insist on shopping in a brick and mortar store, of course it depends where you live. In my smallish city there's at least one surplus store that has many bins of small mechanical parts, including plastic gears. With the rise of the maker movement, there are more resources for things like that than there were even a few years ago. If you are incapable of counting teeth or measuring things, I'm sorry, but most people could if they wanted to. And almost all people are capable of purchasing things online. (That being said, some toys are now so cheap that it can be cheaper to replace than repair, especially if you have to pay shipping on the part but not the toy).
achamayou 10y ago
For objects which are valuable for reasons other than their utility, repairs or aging can certainly improve value. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi, watches with "tropical" dials, or even pre-aged jeans.
NegativeLatency 10y ago
Depends on your definition of repair. If someone could replace a broken plastic gear train with a better metal one, then that would still be a repair, but the product would be better than before
Pica_soO 10y ago
Thank you for this realistic point of view. Its contrary to everything i hold dear about the recycling idea- and reducing the energy footprint of manufacturing, but your points really made me think.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
permatech 10y ago
Are you talking about consumer good only? What about buildings? Bridges? Planes? Trains? > The intermittent availability starts to become stressful; you're never sure when the next thing will break or need repair, you can no longer rely on the thing. See goals of Industry 4.0
dugditches 10y ago
'Repaired items are never as good as new' Yes, often times when repaired properly they're better than new. Because the thing that broke in the first place is often fixed/replaced with a better part.

by barrkel 10y ago

adrianN 10y ago

You are aware that producing new things consumes many non-renewable resources that could be saved by a simple repair? Recycling is only a distant second when it comes to saving resources.

barrkel 10y ago
Most non-renewable resources are for energy generation; I think economics (i.e. price information) will solve this problem. The biggest challenge is ensuring that externalities are priced in correctly, and in ways that aren't politically corrupt or, too stickily protectionist for industries.
smallnamespace 10y ago
Repairing things requires labor, which also indirectly consumes many non-renewable resources (since the person supplying the labor will use their wages to buy new shiny things). As others have pointed out, the right way to address this is to put the correct price on using non-renewable resources, not to directly force re-use or repair, since the economic efficiency of doing that depends a lot on the specific item.

ofcrpls 10y ago

Companies can have a tiered pricing where tolerances for components vary for the price of replacement/rebuilding by the robots.

brightball 10y ago

I see what you're saying, but the mean time for failure for the whole at the moment is basically the failure time for the weakest part. For example, my son got an RC car for Christmas from my parents. It's a great car and he had a lot of fun driving it for about 3 days. He accidentally rammed it into a tree trunk and the cheap plastic gear that controlled the steering shattered. The car itself, should last a while but because one part broke the entire product is essentially a brick right now.

permatech 10y ago
>> The car itself, should last a while but because one part broke the entire product is essentially a brick right now. Because you won't take the time to fix it! What a waste!
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  Where do you go to buy a plastic gear for a RC car? Identifying a matching part and getting it is a task that probably most of us have become incapable of. I also believe that much of the infrastructure that made repairing things like this easier in the past has disappeared to a large part.
  - jpindar 10y ago
    There are hundreds of rc car parts sites, as well as robotics hobbyist shops, and industrial parts sites that carry generic plastic gears. If you insist on shopping in a brick and mortar store, of course it depends where you live. In my smallish city there's at least one surplus store that has many bins of small mechanical parts, including plastic gears. With the rise of the maker movement, there are more resources for things like that than there were even a few years ago. If you are incapable of counting teeth or measuring things, I'm sorry, but most people could if they wanted to. And almost all people are capable of purchasing things online. (That being said, some toys are now so cheap that it can be cheaper to replace than repair, especially if you have to pay shipping on the part but not the toy).

achamayou 10y ago

For objects which are valuable for reasons other than their utility, repairs or aging can certainly improve value. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi, watches with "tropical" dials, or even pre-aged jeans.

NegativeLatency 10y ago

Depends on your definition of repair. If someone could replace a broken plastic gear train with a better metal one, then that would still be a repair, but the product would be better than before

Pica_soO 10y ago

Thank you for this realistic point of view. Its contrary to everything i hold dear about the recycling idea- and reducing the energy footprint of manufacturing, but your points really made me think.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

permatech 10y ago

Are you talking about consumer good only? What about buildings? Bridges? Planes? Trains? > The intermittent availability starts to become stressful; you're never sure when the next thing will break or need repair, you can no longer rely on the thing. See goals of Industry 4.0

dugditches 10y ago

'Repaired items are never as good as new' Yes, often times when repaired properly they're better than new. Because the thing that broke in the first place is often fixed/replaced with a better part.