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I've lived in the US for a while now, but I'm still also Eastern European (Bulgaria) and I completely disagree that it's "disappearing". Romania, Serbia, "Mace

I've lived in the US for a while now, but I'm still also Eastern European (Bulgaria) and I completely disagree that it's "disappearing". Romania, Serbia, "Macedonia" (yes, the quotes are intentional, and yes, I know it's not cool, and yes, this is pretty typical), Bulgaria - they're all on a completely different level of human development, corruption, values, etc. Part of the reason is 500 years of Ottoman rule, another part is the close proximity and close relations with the Russian Empire/USSR/Russia, but someone who's Czech or Hungarian or a Croat is much closer culturally with someone from Germany/Austria than someone from Bulgaria is. Being part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and part of the Ottoman Empire completely changed how those countries developed, and the situations they're in now, even though countries are sometimes only hundreds of miles apart. Hungary, Czechoslovakia had revolutions, in '56 in '68 respectively, to attempt to escape the iron grip of Mother Russia while a large portion of Bulgarians to this day are Russophiles and nostalgic about those days, not to mention EU- and NATO-sceptics. Props to Western Europe for literally dragging countries like Bulgaria and Romania and Serbia away from the clutches of the Russian Bear and into Western Civilization, but I'm not convinced they'll be successful.

tnorthcutt 10y ago
I find this kind of history fascinating. Do you know of any books or articles that go into more detail on these differences and the history behind them?
- seer 10y ago
  Not sure if it's exactly what you're asking for, but an american acquaintance of mine is doing a podcast "hardcore history" style about Bulgaria (http://bghistorypodcast.com/ http://bghistorypodcast.com/) and since most of that land was actually Bulgaria a long time ago, it should cover a lot of the region.
  - bluetomcat 10y ago
    Bulgarians are actually the oldest nation in Europe and the country has preserved its name since its founding in 681 AD. Medieval Bulgaria has had a long and glorious history before the Ottoman invasion in 1396. During the 500-year lasting Turkish yoke we managed to preserve our traditions, language and religion. Only a very small percentage of the population was converted to Islam.
    - robotomir 10y ago
      The country is independent since 1908, and before that no one wanted to convert the local population, because non-Muslims paid higher taxes. Can we please stop it with the internet patriotism?
      - bluetomcat 10y ago
        Are you one of these proponents of denying the horrifying Turkish terror and atrocities against our predecessors, and of rephrasing it to "a peaceful and enriching coexistence with the charming Muslims"? And that the blood bath of children and women in Batak was just a manifestation of an odd cultural trait from the Turkish bashibozuks? That kind of morally relativistic BS happily doesn't ring true for the majority of contemporary Bulgarians who haven't been a subject of liberal brainwashing.
robotomir 10y ago
>Props to Western Europe for literally dragging countries like Bulgaria and Romania and Serbia Some of us who still live here like to think that our votes and civic choices also had a tiny influence in the matter. A curious thing to note is that population numbers are declining across most of Eastern Europe, which I don't think is the case in the West, because of immigration.
bluetomcat 10y ago
> Props to Western Europe for literally dragging countries like Bulgaria and Romania and Serbia What kind of effort has Western Europe actually put towards "dragging us into western civilization"? We just became a market for their goods and a pool of cheap skilled and unskilled labour. Recently, they even started praising our corrupt politicians (from the GERB party) just for keeping a pro-EU stance. Most people had a genuine pro-western attitude in the 1990s, but that is now evaporating because we realised that the West doesn't care at all.

tnorthcutt 10y ago

I find this kind of history fascinating. Do you know of any books or articles that go into more detail on these differences and the history behind them?

seer 10y ago
Not sure if it's exactly what you're asking for, but an american acquaintance of mine is doing a podcast "hardcore history" style about Bulgaria (http://bghistorypodcast.com/ http://bghistorypodcast.com/) and since most of that land was actually Bulgaria a long time ago, it should cover a lot of the region.
- bluetomcat 10y ago
  Bulgarians are actually the oldest nation in Europe and the country has preserved its name since its founding in 681 AD. Medieval Bulgaria has had a long and glorious history before the Ottoman invasion in 1396. During the 500-year lasting Turkish yoke we managed to preserve our traditions, language and religion. Only a very small percentage of the population was converted to Islam.
  - robotomir 10y ago
    The country is independent since 1908, and before that no one wanted to convert the local population, because non-Muslims paid higher taxes. Can we please stop it with the internet patriotism?
    - bluetomcat 10y ago
      Are you one of these proponents of denying the horrifying Turkish terror and atrocities against our predecessors, and of rephrasing it to "a peaceful and enriching coexistence with the charming Muslims"? And that the blood bath of children and women in Batak was just a manifestation of an odd cultural trait from the Turkish bashibozuks? That kind of morally relativistic BS happily doesn't ring true for the majority of contemporary Bulgarians who haven't been a subject of liberal brainwashing.

robotomir 10y ago

>Props to Western Europe for literally dragging countries like Bulgaria and Romania and Serbia Some of us who still live here like to think that our votes and civic choices also had a tiny influence in the matter. A curious thing to note is that population numbers are declining across most of Eastern Europe, which I don't think is the case in the West, because of immigration.

bluetomcat 10y ago

> Props to Western Europe for literally dragging countries like Bulgaria and Romania and Serbia What kind of effort has Western Europe actually put towards "dragging us into western civilization"? We just became a market for their goods and a pool of cheap skilled and unskilled labour. Recently, they even started praising our corrupt politicians (from the GERB party) just for keeping a pro-EU stance. Most people had a genuine pro-western attitude in the 1990s, but that is now evaporating because we realised that the West doesn't care at all.