5 ms·
> Go to Prague, Warsaw, Budapest, Bratislava, Wrocław, Debrecen, Timișoara, or Tallinn. Walk the streets. Visit the malls and cellphone kiosks. How would you kn
by ddebernardy 10y ago
> Go to Prague, Warsaw, Budapest, Bratislava, Wrocław, Debrecen, Timișoara, or Tallinn. Walk the streets. Visit the malls and cellphone kiosks. How would you know that you aren’t in Bremen, Charleroi, Newcastle, or Fargo?
As one who actually lived or traveled to several of those places, I'd submit that the answer is quite a few things.
There's surface level resemblance between the two lists when you're in a shopping mall or a shop heavy district. Outside of the latter, however, Western cities and countryside stand out as much wealthier in all sorts of ways. In particular less places that look like they're in shambles.
The contrast is comparable what you can encounter in the US countryside (which at times is borderline 3rd world-ish) vs e.g. major US metropoles (which compare to major Western European cities in sophistication and wealth).
- sremani 10y agoYou are conflating the poverty of US country side, there are certainly pockets of third-world level poverty esp. rio grande valley, Appalachia, Mississippi delta, but those are not the standard, Yes, there are relatively less wealthy than cities, but to compare them with slums of manila or Bombay is being disingenuous.
- ddebernardy 10y agoHence my writing "at times". Will edit to make it appear earlier for clarity. And certainly agreed that they're a far cry from favelas.
- karmelapple 10y agoYeah, I definitely agree that I have never been to a place in the USA that borders on third world conditions, and I've been to many rural places. Is there a particular definition you're using, or some example of a place in the USA you feel fits this?
- ddebernardy 10y agoNothing specific, just vague recollections of places in central California while visiting the area. I'd stop (or not) with an "Oh wow, I've gone to cheap taco place in Mexico that were less in shambles" in the back of my head. It's nowhere near comparable to Latin American slums, obviously, but it certainly looked on par with what you see in the Belizean or Mexican countryside. And it was a far cry from what I've ever encountered in rural France, Benelux, or Germany outside of abandoned crack shacks.
- coldtea 10y ago>Yeah, I definitely agree that I have never been to a place in the USA that borders on third world conditions, and I've been to many rural places Depends on what you mean by "third world conditions" too. There are places in the third world that are heaps and bounds above some US towns and cities. Try parts of Mississippi, Appalachia, etc. Or heck, try Pine Ridge SD, where life expectancy "in 2007 was estimated to be 48 for males and 52 for females."
- bfuller 10y agoAlso the third world country we like to call "Oklahoma"
- geoka9 10y agoI'd like to add that if you only look at the brands and stores, you might not see a lot of difference. But if you read/listen to the news, talk to the people or just overhear their conversations in the streets, you'll probably perceive the difference and get to look at the place with different eyes.
- dougmwne 10y agoI'm living part of the year in Poland. I've noticed a surprising pessimistic attitude here, when outward economic signs have been very positive for more than a decade. People are equally surprised when I express my optimistic American attitude. Truthfully, many of my American friends would be quite jealous of the lives of my Polish friends. I think this difference is deeply rooted in history and is a clear continuing legacy of the iron curtain.
- the_nozzle 10y agoPessimism is our national trait.
- taway_1212 10y agoA a Pole I agree - pessimism is our way of life :) It only requires a cursory study of our history to see why we always expect the worst outcomes (as that's what has been happening to us in the last 200 hundred years, with the recent exception of post-Soviet era).
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoPoles emigrated to America in the 1800's (I think) and around here (the US Midwest) they are expected to be pragmatic and stubborn. Not negative at all; just impossible to push around. Its interesting to see how attitudes diverge when populations split anyway.
- dougmwne 10y agoI have a pet theory that immigrant populations hang onto a snapshot of their culture when they leave. The mother country has no need for this nostalgic attachment and continues to evolve, sometimes rapidly.
- koonsolo 10y agoMaybe for the most part, but as a Belgian with a Slovak girlfriend, I can say I would pick Bratislava over Charleroi any time.
- lucaspiller 10y agoAs a Brit living in Vilnius I'd also agree. The city is much tidier and cleaner than anything in the U.K., people are friendlier and the shops seem of a higher quality (there's no high streets full of Poundland and 99p Store here).
- ddebernardy 10y agoMe too, if only for the weather and the parties. :D As an aside you touch on a separate point: it's much easier for your girlfriend to find work in Belgium than it would be for you to find one in Bratislava. Which probably explains, much like here further south, the mass exodus of the youth and a somewhat pessimistic attitude of the locals towards their country's economy.