5 ms·

I suspect basic income would lead to an increase in inflation in the current environment. How? It's the same amount of money, just redirected from existing wel

I suspect basic income would lead to an increase in inflation in the current environment. How? It's the same amount of money, just redirected from existing welfare programs and redistributed via taxes. Then wouldn't it follow that inflation would then take place all but entirely removing the utility of the basic income? If you're making $10k/year and get another $10k from basic income, you'll be much better off even if somehow there is significant inflation. Basic income isn't a magic wand to make everyone richer. It's an efficient way of guaranteeing that everyone can cover their basic needs, without the inefficiencies and harmful incentives of the current system.

greedo 10y ago
There's no way to make the numbers work if BI is funded by just redirecting existing welfare programs.
- orangecat 10y ago
  Right, any reasonable implementation will result in people with higher incomes having their taxes increased by more than the BI amount. And I think that's a trade a lot of conservatives and libertarians would accept: more redistribution in exchange for less intrusiveness and greater efficiency.
  - hueving 10y ago
    Giving everyone basic income of $10k in the US would be about 2.5T annually (assuming children get nothing). Current tax revenue is only 3.6T and we spend $200-$300B on welfare (assuming you exclude Medicare/Medicade) so it would be a 10x increase in spending on welfare and a 60%-70% tax increase. I'm not even that conservative and I think that's ridiculous for an amount of money that doesn't even cover the rent in most cities.
  - greedo 10y ago
    Conservatives and Libertarians would never accept BI. Look at how hard they've fought welfare in general.
cmdrfred 10y ago
>How? It's the same amount of money, just redirected from existing welfare programs and redistributed via taxes. The average spending per welfare recipient is roughly $25 a day[0] in the US that adds up to $9125 per person. 23%[1] of households currently receive some type of government benefit, while half of working individuals make less than 30 thousand dollars a year[2]. If you wished to provide basic income to just those making under 30 thousand a year my back of a napkin math says you would at a conservative estimate double the current expenditures and that program isn't basic income as much as welfare expansion. >If you're making $10k/year and get another $10k from basic income, you'll be much better off even if somehow there is significant inflation. If you doubled everyone's salaries, due to supply and demand, the price of every good would then double. Money is used to purchase goods and services that are produced using a finite set of resources. Those resources don't grow simply because you have printed more money. [0]http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-average-us-welfare-payment-puts-you-in-the-top-20-of-all-income-earners/#73db1b519d8f http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-avera... [1]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/terry-jeffrey/are-there-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/... [2]http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/25/1-in-2-working-americans-make-less-than-30000-a-year/ http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/25/1-in-2-working-americans-m...

greedo 10y ago

There's no way to make the numbers work if BI is funded by just redirecting existing welfare programs.

orangecat 10y ago
Right, any reasonable implementation will result in people with higher incomes having their taxes increased by more than the BI amount. And I think that's a trade a lot of conservatives and libertarians would accept: more redistribution in exchange for less intrusiveness and greater efficiency.
- hueving 10y ago
  Giving everyone basic income of $10k in the US would be about 2.5T annually (assuming children get nothing). Current tax revenue is only 3.6T and we spend $200-$300B on welfare (assuming you exclude Medicare/Medicade) so it would be a 10x increase in spending on welfare and a 60%-70% tax increase. I'm not even that conservative and I think that's ridiculous for an amount of money that doesn't even cover the rent in most cities.
- greedo 10y ago
  Conservatives and Libertarians would never accept BI. Look at how hard they've fought welfare in general.

cmdrfred 10y ago

>How? It's the same amount of money, just redirected from existing welfare programs and redistributed via taxes. The average spending per welfare recipient is roughly $25 a day[0] in the US that adds up to $9125 per person. 23%[1] of households currently receive some type of government benefit, while half of working individuals make less than 30 thousand dollars a year[2]. If you wished to provide basic income to just those making under 30 thousand a year my back of a napkin math says you would at a conservative estimate double the current expenditures and that program isn't basic income as much as welfare expansion. >If you're making $10k/year and get another $10k from basic income, you'll be much better off even if somehow there is significant inflation. If you doubled everyone's salaries, due to supply and demand, the price of every good would then double. Money is used to purchase goods and services that are produced using a finite set of resources. Those resources don't grow simply because you have printed more money. [0]http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-average-us-welfare-payment-puts-you-in-the-top-20-of-all-income-earners/#73db1b519d8f http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-avera... [1]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/terry-jeffrey/are-there-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/... [2]http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/25/1-in-2-working-americans-make-less-than-30000-a-year/ http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/25/1-in-2-working-americans-m...