4 ms·

The headline of the article is misleading. As the article mentions itself at the end, the legal problem with the doll is, that it is a concealed listening devic

by _ph_ 10y ago

The headline of the article is misleading. As the article mentions itself at the end, the legal problem with the doll is, that it is a concealed listening device, a bug. And the sale and possession of these kind of devices is banned in Germany. That it can be too easily hacked, only makes the situation worse in practical terms, but the decisive factor is, that it is banned by the kind of its design.

kazagistar 10y ago
What about the xbox one or whatever similar always-on listening devices?
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  I believe they're not considered to be concealed, since idk, the packaging says so. Reading another comment which says it's a bluetooth speaker, so maybe the ability to listen was never reported to the consumer, which would make it a concealed listening device.
  - mcguire 10y ago
    According to the article, it answers questions (using Google). I haven't seen one, but I'd expect the microphone to be featured.
- germanier 10y ago
  An Xbox looks like a technical device and it's not unreasonable to assume that it might contain a microphone that is transmitting what it picks up but this is still on the line. A doll looks like stuffed fabric and it would never occur to me that it might contain a microphone that's sending what I'm saying in the room.
  - ominous 10y ago
    but now it does (occur to you that dolls can have hidden microphones). I also wouldn't expect a TV to have a microphone, but smart TVs proved me wrong.
    - treve 10y ago
      This isn't really about what logically makes sense to you personally, Germanier just explains how the law is currently interpreted.
      - germanier 10y ago
        Yes, the law prohibits to own "transmitting equipment which, by its form, purports to be another object or is disguised under an object of daily use and, due to such circumstances, is particularly suitable for intercepting the non-publicly spoken words of another person without their detection". Neither Smart TVs nor Xboxes claim to be something they are not.
        acqq 10y ago
        From what I see, the doll also doesn't hide how it works, exactly like the "listening" TV: nobody would have expected that the TV would listen and send somewhere "the non-publicly spoken words" just a decade ago, and as far as I know, there are now such on the market, probably also in Germany. Then such a TV could be also considered a "clandestine listening device." If it's "does it have a manual that says it does that" both the TV and the doll have it. It's the matter of what is considered "normal." The specific quote you provide doesn't make the difference that makes the doll less legal than the TV. But maybe there's something clearer? The FAQ pdf of the doll: http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/public/downloads/cayla_FAQ.pdf http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/public/downloads/cayla_FAQ.pdf "Do I need an internet connection to play with Cayla? An internet connection will be required to download the free app which unlocks all of the fun things which Cayla can do. Some functions, such as searching for information on the internet (famous people, places, time, weather, etc), require an internet connection. Cayla can do lots offline, like having conversations, playing games, reading stories, and exploring her photo album. In fact, most of the interactive play requires no internet connection at all." I agree that it's not clearly stated that it's the recording of the voice that gets transmitted somewhere. But it's obvious that something is transmitted. Somebody can compare with the manuals of the "listening" TVs. The site of the doll: http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/cayla http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/cayla "Ask Cayla Questions -- ONLINE" "Play games like noughts and crosses together -- Offline" See my other post here for more technical details.

by _ph_ 10y ago

kazagistar 10y ago

What about the xbox one or whatever similar always-on listening devices?

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
I believe they're not considered to be concealed, since idk, the packaging says so. Reading another comment which says it's a bluetooth speaker, so maybe the ability to listen was never reported to the consumer, which would make it a concealed listening device.
- mcguire 10y ago
  According to the article, it answers questions (using Google). I haven't seen one, but I'd expect the microphone to be featured.
germanier 10y ago
An Xbox looks like a technical device and it's not unreasonable to assume that it might contain a microphone that is transmitting what it picks up but this is still on the line. A doll looks like stuffed fabric and it would never occur to me that it might contain a microphone that's sending what I'm saying in the room.
- ominous 10y ago
  but now it does (occur to you that dolls can have hidden microphones). I also wouldn't expect a TV to have a microphone, but smart TVs proved me wrong.
  - treve 10y ago
    This isn't really about what logically makes sense to you personally, Germanier just explains how the law is currently interpreted.
    - germanier 10y ago
      Yes, the law prohibits to own "transmitting equipment which, by its form, purports to be another object or is disguised under an object of daily use and, due to such circumstances, is particularly suitable for intercepting the non-publicly spoken words of another person without their detection". Neither Smart TVs nor Xboxes claim to be something they are not.
      - acqq 10y ago
        From what I see, the doll also doesn't hide how it works, exactly like the "listening" TV: nobody would have expected that the TV would listen and send somewhere "the non-publicly spoken words" just a decade ago, and as far as I know, there are now such on the market, probably also in Germany. Then such a TV could be also considered a "clandestine listening device." If it's "does it have a manual that says it does that" both the TV and the doll have it. It's the matter of what is considered "normal." The specific quote you provide doesn't make the difference that makes the doll less legal than the TV. But maybe there's something clearer? The FAQ pdf of the doll: http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/public/downloads/cayla_FAQ.pdf http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/public/downloads/cayla_FAQ.pdf "Do I need an internet connection to play with Cayla? An internet connection will be required to download the free app which unlocks all of the fun things which Cayla can do. Some functions, such as searching for information on the internet (famous people, places, time, weather, etc), require an internet connection. Cayla can do lots offline, like having conversations, playing games, reading stories, and exploring her photo album. In fact, most of the interactive play requires no internet connection at all." I agree that it's not clearly stated that it's the recording of the voice that gets transmitted somewhere. But it's obvious that something is transmitted. Somebody can compare with the manuals of the "listening" TVs. The site of the doll: http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/cayla http://myfriendcayla.co.uk/cayla "Ask Cayla Questions -- ONLINE" "Play games like noughts and crosses together -- Offline" See my other post here for more technical details.