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Yup! And your project can be removed/banned from GitHub if you do something she disagrees with now. I forget which project it was that was lashed out at recentl

Yup! And your project can be removed/banned from GitHub if you do something she disagrees with now. I forget which project it was that was lashed out at recently, but it's all rather insane.

adekok 10y ago
That is, it looks like GitHub will ignore it's own code of conduct in order to punish "bad" people. This is a common theme among proponents of codes of conduct. See also Twitter's ban on many people, including Milo Yiannopoulos. He was banned for "violating the rules". But I've looked, and no one anywhere can point out which exact tweet violated which particular rule. Even more extreme, no one can point out where he said any of things he's accused of saying. So... Twitter blocked him for "abuse", when there is zero evidence of such abuse. I'll say this: The more extreme the code of conduct, the more likely it will be broken by the people enforcing it.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  Neither Github nor Twitter have a code of conduct; they have a Terms of Service document. TOS, unlike CoCs, are written by lawyers because the goal is a full-featured CYA. And they generally contain the legalesed disclaimer "we're free to get rid of you whenever we feel like, for whatever reason we feel like". I'm sure twitter also has some extra community rules somewhere. CoCs are worrisome because they tend to emulate that behaviour, and I certainly do not condone overreaching TOS, but you can't equate those two situations. It's the behaviour of people vs. the behaviour of companies.
  - adekok 10y ago
    Except in the case of Twitter, the claim was that they banned Milo for engaging in certain kinds of behavior. Such claims are false. When you have such a legalese disclaimer as above, you don't need to lie about why you're banning someone. You just say "Under the Twitter ToS, we've banned Milo." The fact that they chose to lie about the justification for the ban shows not only that the ban was politically motivated (and not based on reality), but that they are so incompetent that they can't even spin it in their favor. Their bias is leaking. They don't really care about their own ToS. They don't care about following the rules they put in. They do care about banning anyone who they don't like. I find such behavior unethical, and morally repugnant.
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      What does any of this have to do with codes of conduct in open source?
      - adekok 10y ago
        The "Code of Conduct" discussion is about a larger social issue. CoCs in open source projects are just one facet. As others have posted here, some people pushing "codes of conduct in open source" end up violating those codes themselves, and abusing their authority. These people do this not only in open source forums, but in other places, too. The underlying topic then, cannot be about the CoC. In reality, the topic being discussed is who gets to control the conversation. Along with that, who gets to decide what topics are acceptable. Not just which topics are OK for a list / forum, but which topics are "good think", and which ones are "bad think". The question for someone running an open source project, then, is will your project be taken over by people who are pushing a particular ideological agenda, and who are using your project to do so? My answer is "No.". Perhaps "over my dead body" is more accurate.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    Github does use a CoC for their projects, actually: "We have adopted the Open Code of Conduct for the open source projects that we maintain, including Atom, Electron, Git LFS, and many others." https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-conduct https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-condu...
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      For their projects, not for the site. Big difference.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

Yup! And your project can be removed/banned from GitHub if you do something she disagrees with now. I forget which project it was that was lashed out at recently, but it's all rather insane.

adekok 10y ago

That is, it looks like GitHub will ignore it's own code of conduct in order to punish "bad" people. This is a common theme among proponents of codes of conduct. See also Twitter's ban on many people, including Milo Yiannopoulos. He was banned for "violating the rules". But I've looked, and no one anywhere can point out which exact tweet violated which particular rule. Even more extreme, no one can point out where he said any of things he's accused of saying. So... Twitter blocked him for "abuse", when there is zero evidence of such abuse. I'll say this: The more extreme the code of conduct, the more likely it will be broken by the people enforcing it.

scrollaway 10y ago
Neither Github nor Twitter have a code of conduct; they have a Terms of Service document. TOS, unlike CoCs, are written by lawyers because the goal is a full-featured CYA. And they generally contain the legalesed disclaimer "we're free to get rid of you whenever we feel like, for whatever reason we feel like". I'm sure twitter also has some extra community rules somewhere. CoCs are worrisome because they tend to emulate that behaviour, and I certainly do not condone overreaching TOS, but you can't equate those two situations. It's the behaviour of people vs. the behaviour of companies.
- adekok 10y ago
  Except in the case of Twitter, the claim was that they banned Milo for engaging in certain kinds of behavior. Such claims are false. When you have such a legalese disclaimer as above, you don't need to lie about why you're banning someone. You just say "Under the Twitter ToS, we've banned Milo." The fact that they chose to lie about the justification for the ban shows not only that the ban was politically motivated (and not based on reality), but that they are so incompetent that they can't even spin it in their favor. Their bias is leaking. They don't really care about their own ToS. They don't care about following the rules they put in. They do care about banning anyone who they don't like. I find such behavior unethical, and morally repugnant.
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    What does any of this have to do with codes of conduct in open source?
    - adekok 10y ago
      The "Code of Conduct" discussion is about a larger social issue. CoCs in open source projects are just one facet. As others have posted here, some people pushing "codes of conduct in open source" end up violating those codes themselves, and abusing their authority. These people do this not only in open source forums, but in other places, too. The underlying topic then, cannot be about the CoC. In reality, the topic being discussed is who gets to control the conversation. Along with that, who gets to decide what topics are acceptable. Not just which topics are OK for a list / forum, but which topics are "good think", and which ones are "bad think". The question for someone running an open source project, then, is will your project be taken over by people who are pushing a particular ideological agenda, and who are using your project to do so? My answer is "No.". Perhaps "over my dead body" is more accurate.
- falcolas 10y ago
  Github does use a CoC for their projects, actually: "We have adopted the Open Code of Conduct for the open source projects that we maintain, including Atom, Electron, Git LFS, and many others." https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-conduct https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-condu...
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    For their projects, not for the site. Big difference.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]