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I agree. I mean, most of Google's software projects are open source lately. Not only that, but they encourage developers from all over to work on their projec

by Bossman 16y ago

I agree. I mean, most of Google's software projects are open source lately. Not only that, but they encourage developers from all over to work on their projects to make them better. I think the comparison to Microsoft in this article are kind of off base here. I mean, look at WebM... Google acquired the codecs and technology when they bought On2 a while back and now instead of sitting on it or using it for proprietary purposes, they completely open it up so people have a choice for an open web standard.

loewenskind 16y ago
So if google does one thing you like, then their off the hook? > Not only that, but they encourage developers from all over to work on their projects to make them better. Of course they do... free labor that they can make money off of, even if indirectly.
- Bossman 16y ago
  No, that's not what I mean. I just think there's a lot more merit in what Google is doing than what Microsoft did with things like IE, entering in gaming, etc...and keeping everything proprietary on top of it. Google shouldn't be immune to criticism, but I just think it's misplaced here. Yeah, the draconian comment was stupid and probably not the best reasoning to give, but they're doing things in a good way in my view.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    It's true, they're not like Microsoft in their method. But every good thing they do makes us more dependant on them. Even if the founders are without spot (hard to believe given the "if you have something to hide" comment), they wont live forever. What will we do when all competition has died off thanks to Googles goodness and they decide that "evil" means "things that don't make us more profits"? I don't hate google, I use them for things. But I really hate the wreckless abandon with which people embrace them. The market can't "correct" them when they do wrong because they have another source for their income.
    - Bossman 16y ago
      Very true. I'm definitely more weary of them as they get bigger and expand into more and more markets, but I think there will always be alternatives in the future. I mean, who knew Microsoft would be second in so many areas at this point?
      - loewenskind 16y ago
        I don't mean to paint a doomsday scenario, I know that if google turns evil we'll find a way to break out of it. It's just that in my opinion MS' lock in set the computer industry back at least 10 years. I think we could have a lot more advanced technology today if we hadn't been locked into an inferior platform for so long (today it's not as inferior, but imo everything pre-win2000 had superior alternatives). I would hate to suffer another set back by too many people betting on the same horse again. EDIT: Clarification
        Bossman 16y ago
        I agree. And I think with the openness of the internet and free technologies (especially ones that Google is now promoting), people will be able to break free easier than they were when Microsoft was ruling. Information flows freer now, a lot of things are becoming open source so people can make their own changes or versions of software, and there's a lot more competition than there was back in the day (especially in areas like the browser market).
ZeroGravitas 16y ago
I think WebM is a good thing, but then I also think Apple's Webkit is a good thing too. Doesn't give either of them a free pass in other areas. Something that annoyed me for a long time as an Apple user was that people would criticize them very strongly for the wrong things, while ignoring, not understanding or actively embracing them when they did bad stuff. It seemed to be the wrong kind of feedback loop. (The absolute roasting they got from Mac developers when they suggested web apps were the future being a good example). For an example of a Google faux pas, they're crowdsourcing map data in the developing world and then keeping the data proprietary. If we can't give feedback about companies at any granularity lower than loving or hating the whole company then we're in trouble as an industry (and sadly that often seems to be the case).

by Bossman 16y ago

loewenskind 16y ago

So if google does one thing you like, then their off the hook? > Not only that, but they encourage developers from all over to work on their projects to make them better. Of course they do... free labor that they can make money off of, even if indirectly.

Bossman 16y ago
No, that's not what I mean. I just think there's a lot more merit in what Google is doing than what Microsoft did with things like IE, entering in gaming, etc...and keeping everything proprietary on top of it. Google shouldn't be immune to criticism, but I just think it's misplaced here. Yeah, the draconian comment was stupid and probably not the best reasoning to give, but they're doing things in a good way in my view.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  It's true, they're not like Microsoft in their method. But every good thing they do makes us more dependant on them. Even if the founders are without spot (hard to believe given the "if you have something to hide" comment), they wont live forever. What will we do when all competition has died off thanks to Googles goodness and they decide that "evil" means "things that don't make us more profits"? I don't hate google, I use them for things. But I really hate the wreckless abandon with which people embrace them. The market can't "correct" them when they do wrong because they have another source for their income.
  - Bossman 16y ago
    Very true. I'm definitely more weary of them as they get bigger and expand into more and more markets, but I think there will always be alternatives in the future. I mean, who knew Microsoft would be second in so many areas at this point?
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      I don't mean to paint a doomsday scenario, I know that if google turns evil we'll find a way to break out of it. It's just that in my opinion MS' lock in set the computer industry back at least 10 years. I think we could have a lot more advanced technology today if we hadn't been locked into an inferior platform for so long (today it's not as inferior, but imo everything pre-win2000 had superior alternatives). I would hate to suffer another set back by too many people betting on the same horse again. EDIT: Clarification
      - Bossman 16y ago
        I agree. And I think with the openness of the internet and free technologies (especially ones that Google is now promoting), people will be able to break free easier than they were when Microsoft was ruling. Information flows freer now, a lot of things are becoming open source so people can make their own changes or versions of software, and there's a lot more competition than there was back in the day (especially in areas like the browser market).

ZeroGravitas 16y ago

I think WebM is a good thing, but then I also think Apple's Webkit is a good thing too. Doesn't give either of them a free pass in other areas. Something that annoyed me for a long time as an Apple user was that people would criticize them very strongly for the wrong things, while ignoring, not understanding or actively embracing them when they did bad stuff. It seemed to be the wrong kind of feedback loop. (The absolute roasting they got from Mac developers when they suggested web apps were the future being a good example). For an example of a Google faux pas, they're crowdsourcing map data in the developing world and then keeping the data proprietary. If we can't give feedback about companies at any granularity lower than loving or hating the whole company then we're in trouble as an industry (and sadly that often seems to be the case).