7 ms·

That's the problem. How does a small Midwestern city take 40 minutes to drive halfway across, except for utterly horrible planning and land use? Why is a single

That's the problem. How does a small Midwestern city take 40 minutes to drive halfway across, except for utterly horrible planning and land use? Why is a single city 40 miles wide? It got this way through 60 years of low density sprawl. Sprawling further and asking people to drive longer and longer distances is not a viable solution - socially, environmentally or fiscally. We need to remove the barriers and even encourage mid-scale density on all levels of government. We need to be thinking of creative transit, design and tech solutions to retrofit our cities for something besides single passenger cars because our cities are choking on them.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
GauntletWizard 10y ago
Or, you know, people like to live in houses with a yard, where there might be wild animals living around or a forest somewhere within an hour's drive, and prefer that over cramped hovels.
- dashundchen 10y ago
  Ironically if everyone lives in low density sprawl for nature, it destroys the same habitat where those wild animals once lived, or where that forest was, and it makes actual nature harder to access for anyone who can't afford or travel to the latest round of exurbia. Whereas if our cities were denser, there'd be more open space left, that is easier to access, by potentially more people. Density != cramped hovel. And density doesn't mean everyone lives in a highrise. There's points between single family homes on quarter acres and 60 story skyscrapers. Edit: I highly encourage you to checkout some examples of cities that saw most of their growth pre-auto: Here's my personal favorite - Leipzig Germany, metro population around 1 million: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/ A wide range of uses, densities, housing prices and modes of transportation (dedicated bike infrastructure, transit, and yes even cars). But the compact development area can leave so much more room for green space, nature preserves, public parks, agriculture, watershed protection. There's even many buildings that have yards - it's just everyone doesn't get their own acre.
  - Moru 10y ago
    Leipzig was heavily bombed in the war so I guess that helped with rebuilding the infrastructure to make room for alternative transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Leipzig_in_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Leipzig_in_World_Wa...
    - kchoudhu 10y ago
      The way forward for the midwest is clear, then.
    - more_original 10y ago
      Leipzig was rebuilt with essentially the same layout as before the war. If anything, additional space was used for larger roads. Here is a video comparing a tram ride through Leipzig in 1992 with one in 1931: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4wGWzWqBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4wGWzWqBk
    - jbi 10y ago
      I can't say a lot about Leipzig but many german cities were rebuild far more car-centric then they were before. Public transportation, small streets and biking seemed outdated back then. A lot of medieval building were destroyed after 1945 to make room for cars. There's a good german (not subtitled) documentation about this topic [1]. The Nazis had the same attitude before. Cities had to be car-centric, that's why they moved on with the Autobahn and created Volkswagen. The obligation to use bike lanes (Radwegebenutzungspflicht) was issued under the Nazi regime. It was part of the fascist mindset that cities are made of concrete (instead of children playing in parks). [1] http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Reportage-Dokumentation/Unsere-St%C3%A4dte-nach-45-1-Bomben-und-B/Das-Erste/Video?bcastId=799280&documentId=40502138 http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Reportage-Dokumentation/Unsere...
  - ZoeZoeBee 10y ago
    Leipzig is a small city, especially metro area wise compared to the US's large cities. As far as density, people per square kilometer. 10,831 NYC 5,344 Boston 4,447 Chicago 3,198 LA 1,985 Detroit 1,900 Leipzig 1,414 Houston
- hvidgaard 10y ago
  If you live in Berlin, or most other large cities in Europe, there is wildlife and forest within 1 hours drive.
- happosai 10y ago
  Try visiting A nordic city for vacation. You will realize dense city and forests can literally be within walking distance - not one hour drive away.
adrianN 10y ago
In forty minutes you can cross Berlin. It boggles my mind that people want to live in places where you have to ride a car for twenty minutes just to get groceries.
- noobermin 10y ago
  You'd be surprised. I bet my socks that half of the people who make these arguments simply haven't lived in a world where they can exist without a car. They just can't imagine how it is possible because they are so embedded in a reality where cars are vital to life and it's hard to imagine outside of it.
  - walshemj 10y ago
    not every one can afford or want to live in central London or NYC
    - TillE 10y ago
      Rents in Berlin, even after a decade of increases that everyone is concerned about, are roughly equivalent to rents in Buffalo, not Manhattan. It's very odd to think that high rents is some inherent fact of city life.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
        Why is that though? I just googled it and this article seems to think it's a result of bad economic times. Here's the last paragraph >It goes more or less without saying, then, that with an economy stuck in such a unique rut for so long, the housing prices remained similarly uniquely low as well. There was little incentive to build and invest in a city that wasn’t growing economically. Which is precisely what has helped make it so attractive to many, and such fertile ground for investors now that the economy is finally beginning to recover. https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/the-history-behind-berlins-cheap-rents https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/the-history-behind-berlins-... The problem in my city is that in the city there is no middle, there's expensive apartments/townhouses and there's section 8. What I'm most interested in is how do we get mid-priced living introduced into urban areas?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

GauntletWizard 10y ago

Or, you know, people like to live in houses with a yard, where there might be wild animals living around or a forest somewhere within an hour's drive, and prefer that over cramped hovels.

dashundchen 10y ago
Ironically if everyone lives in low density sprawl for nature, it destroys the same habitat where those wild animals once lived, or where that forest was, and it makes actual nature harder to access for anyone who can't afford or travel to the latest round of exurbia. Whereas if our cities were denser, there'd be more open space left, that is easier to access, by potentially more people. Density != cramped hovel. And density doesn't mean everyone lives in a highrise. There's points between single family homes on quarter acres and 60 story skyscrapers. Edit: I highly encourage you to checkout some examples of cities that saw most of their growth pre-auto: Here's my personal favorite - Leipzig Germany, metro population around 1 million: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/ A wide range of uses, densities, housing prices and modes of transportation (dedicated bike infrastructure, transit, and yes even cars). But the compact development area can leave so much more room for green space, nature preserves, public parks, agriculture, watershed protection. There's even many buildings that have yards - it's just everyone doesn't get their own acre.
- Moru 10y ago
  Leipzig was heavily bombed in the war so I guess that helped with rebuilding the infrastructure to make room for alternative transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Leipzig_in_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Leipzig_in_World_Wa...
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    The way forward for the midwest is clear, then.
  - more_original 10y ago
    Leipzig was rebuilt with essentially the same layout as before the war. If anything, additional space was used for larger roads. Here is a video comparing a tram ride through Leipzig in 1992 with one in 1931: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4wGWzWqBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4wGWzWqBk
  - jbi 10y ago
    I can't say a lot about Leipzig but many german cities were rebuild far more car-centric then they were before. Public transportation, small streets and biking seemed outdated back then. A lot of medieval building were destroyed after 1945 to make room for cars. There's a good german (not subtitled) documentation about this topic [1]. The Nazis had the same attitude before. Cities had to be car-centric, that's why they moved on with the Autobahn and created Volkswagen. The obligation to use bike lanes (Radwegebenutzungspflicht) was issued under the Nazi regime. It was part of the fascist mindset that cities are made of concrete (instead of children playing in parks). [1] http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Reportage-Dokumentation/Unsere-St%C3%A4dte-nach-45-1-Bomben-und-B/Das-Erste/Video?bcastId=799280&documentId=40502138 http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Reportage-Dokumentation/Unsere...
- ZoeZoeBee 10y ago
  Leipzig is a small city, especially metro area wise compared to the US's large cities. As far as density, people per square kilometer. 10,831 NYC 5,344 Boston 4,447 Chicago 3,198 LA 1,985 Detroit 1,900 Leipzig 1,414 Houston
hvidgaard 10y ago
If you live in Berlin, or most other large cities in Europe, there is wildlife and forest within 1 hours drive.
happosai 10y ago
Try visiting A nordic city for vacation. You will realize dense city and forests can literally be within walking distance - not one hour drive away.

adrianN 10y ago

In forty minutes you can cross Berlin. It boggles my mind that people want to live in places where you have to ride a car for twenty minutes just to get groceries.

noobermin 10y ago
You'd be surprised. I bet my socks that half of the people who make these arguments simply haven't lived in a world where they can exist without a car. They just can't imagine how it is possible because they are so embedded in a reality where cars are vital to life and it's hard to imagine outside of it.
- walshemj 10y ago
  not every one can afford or want to live in central London or NYC
  - TillE 10y ago
    Rents in Berlin, even after a decade of increases that everyone is concerned about, are roughly equivalent to rents in Buffalo, not Manhattan. It's very odd to think that high rents is some inherent fact of city life.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
      Why is that though? I just googled it and this article seems to think it's a result of bad economic times. Here's the last paragraph >It goes more or less without saying, then, that with an economy stuck in such a unique rut for so long, the housing prices remained similarly uniquely low as well. There was little incentive to build and invest in a city that wasn’t growing economically. Which is precisely what has helped make it so attractive to many, and such fertile ground for investors now that the economy is finally beginning to recover. https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/the-history-behind-berlins-cheap-rents https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/the-history-behind-berlins-... The problem in my city is that in the city there is no middle, there's expensive apartments/townhouses and there's section 8. What I'm most interested in is how do we get mid-priced living introduced into urban areas?