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This article says "It’s totally legal for a US Customs and Border Patrol officer to ask you to unlock your phone and hand it over to them. And they can detain

by schoen 10y ago

This article says "It’s totally legal for a US Customs and Border Patrol officer to ask you to unlock your phone and hand it over to them. And they can detain you indefinitely if you don’t. Even if you’re a American citizen. [...] Barring the use of “excessive force,” agents can do whatever they want to you." and "[I]t’s illegal in most countries to profile individual travelers" I don't think any of these things is accurate. Although courts have been extraordinarily deferential to customs authorities, they've also ruled that many things done in the name of border enforcement were unreasonable! Fortunately I'm working with some lawyers on a new version of a border search guide, so hopefully we can get some informed legal information out there.

sbarre 10y ago
Here's the problem with after-the-fact rulings, or even with trying to call that out if you get stopped like this.. Most people who cross a border are on their way somewhere and have a limited window of time to spend at the border until the delay incurs a very unreasonable financial or scheduling hardship.. Either missing a flight, or hotel, or vacation booking, or business meeting, etc.. So while you may be within your rights to argue and resist these unreasonable searches, they come at a price that border control knows/expects most people will not be prepared to pay.
colmvp 10y ago
It's not that I don't believe you but there are numerous examples of Canadians who have been denied entry to the United States because they refused to allow CBP to access digital devices or they allowed it but had 'incriminating evidence' like Muslim prayer videos or photos taken from areas in conflict as part of photojournalist work. Also afaik, the ACLU has lost cases pertaining to defending liberties at the border
- schoen 10y ago
  The border situation is very difficult. (If you do have "numerous examples" of that, please let me know, because it's relevant to our writing and legal analysis. I care a lot about this, but I don't want anyone to get the wrong intuition about how frequent or infrequent a particular scenario or, as the lawyers say, fact pattern is. Maybe in the second case you're thinking specifically of Laura Poitras's experiences, or do you have some other cases in mind?) I also agree that some border and immigration challenges are lost in court and that it's a legally difficult context in which to defend individual rights, and I was responding to the article's claim that the only court-recognized limit is "excessive force", which is unnecessarily pessimistic.
uremog 10y ago
But whether it's legal or not, a traveler has no power over a border agent. By the time you've gotten any help, whatever your itinerary was is already wrecked.

by schoen 10y ago

sbarre 10y ago

Here's the problem with after-the-fact rulings, or even with trying to call that out if you get stopped like this.. Most people who cross a border are on their way somewhere and have a limited window of time to spend at the border until the delay incurs a very unreasonable financial or scheduling hardship.. Either missing a flight, or hotel, or vacation booking, or business meeting, etc.. So while you may be within your rights to argue and resist these unreasonable searches, they come at a price that border control knows/expects most people will not be prepared to pay.

colmvp 10y ago

It's not that I don't believe you but there are numerous examples of Canadians who have been denied entry to the United States because they refused to allow CBP to access digital devices or they allowed it but had 'incriminating evidence' like Muslim prayer videos or photos taken from areas in conflict as part of photojournalist work. Also afaik, the ACLU has lost cases pertaining to defending liberties at the border

schoen 10y ago
The border situation is very difficult. (If you do have "numerous examples" of that, please let me know, because it's relevant to our writing and legal analysis. I care a lot about this, but I don't want anyone to get the wrong intuition about how frequent or infrequent a particular scenario or, as the lawyers say, fact pattern is. Maybe in the second case you're thinking specifically of Laura Poitras's experiences, or do you have some other cases in mind?) I also agree that some border and immigration challenges are lost in court and that it's a legally difficult context in which to defend individual rights, and I was responding to the article's claim that the only court-recognized limit is "excessive force", which is unnecessarily pessimistic.

uremog 10y ago

But whether it's legal or not, a traveler has no power over a border agent. By the time you've gotten any help, whatever your itinerary was is already wrecked.