2 ms·

Right. Since they may ask for social media passwords, would that imply making a travel profile for my travel devices that has password access to things like Fac

by graeme 10y ago

Right. Since they may ask for social media passwords, would that imply making a travel profile for my travel devices that has password access to things like Facebook and a subset of sites I'd need, but not necessarily all 400+ of my logins? I don't care if they login to my Facebook (well, I think I don't). I just don't want to have them have everything, because then I'd have to change it all. To be very clear, not planning to use any encryption strategies. And as you mentioned, being unable to access Facebook is not a sensible option. My question is about what to bring, not how to secure it.

deong 10y ago
It doesn't matter what you have in your password manager. If you're not a US citizen, they can demand your facebook access. If you don't have it, can't unencrypt it, or just feel like telling them to fuck off doesn't matter. You have no legal right to enter the country except with their permission, and they may well tell the person who didn't put their facebook passwords in the password manager to get back on a plane and go home. US citizens have it better in at least that one regard. They can't keep me from entering the country. They can confiscate my laptop, but if I don't want to give them facebook access, there's not much they can do to stop me. They can of course add me to some list that makes my life miserable every time I fly, but there's no constitutional provision that allows preventing a citizen from entering the country.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rebuilder 10y ago
  So basically, as a non-US citizen, if you don't bring a device that can log into your Facebook account, they might deny you entry? Of course rhey might deny you entry for any reason, and them caring so much about your social media accounts is probably a sign you're on a shitlist somewhere, so maybe it doesn't matter so much. I wonder, though, if you don't have FB etc. accounts, do they believe you?
  - deong 10y ago
    I think the only way to interpret this that's even remotely practical to implement is that while they have the right to ask anything of anyone, in practice, it will likely be targeted. If they're asking, they probably already know quite a bit about you, including whether they think you match some social media profile they've red-flagged. I'm certainly not suggesting that Trump isn't stupid enough to think having CBP attempting to guess whether 800,000 grandmothers every hour are lying about not knowing what Facebook is would be a plan he could seamlessly roll out, but I think any such plan would crater pretty spectacularly.
  - PeterisP 10y ago
    There's a big factor of subjective evaluation, but it can be quite effective. A large majority of people do have FB accounts, and even care about their FB accounts as illustrated by their worries about providing access to them. For most people they wouldn't bother to look, only a tiny fraction of travelers get their devices checked. And if you really don't have FB etc. accounts, they may believe you - I have little reason to doubt that; I feel that if that was their policy then we'd hear about many such cases. However, if you claim that you don't have a FB account and their automated system (seeded by the information submitted by the airline before your arrival) shows a FB account with your face, then that seems a sure way to get turned back at a border.
    - loeg 10y ago
      > shows a FB account with your face Which, amusingly, is a Facebook spammer strategy — clone someone's account, including profile picture. So even if you delete your account, there may be a spammer clone that shows up in CBP's database.
    - type0 10y ago
      So, basically there probably going to be honest people where they would tell the truth, that they don't use thefcnkfacebook but because some scammer has created a fake profile of them would be turned back at the border. Amazing brave new world we live in...
Sundiata 10y ago
What do you think would happen if you don't have facebook?
OJFord 10y ago
Why is this being accepted as even remotely reasonable? What about 'login with Facebook' sites? We here know that we should change our password and logout of existing sessions ASAP after being made to do it, but our non-technical family members may not. "Add TSA as a friend" is borderline reasonable, (pun intended) "give us your password" is not even close. It also damages public awareness of importance of maintaining secure and private passwords more generally.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > Why is this being accepted as even remotely reasonable? That it's unreasonable and unacceptable doesn't mean that it's illegal. Despite your and my hopes, not all unreasonable and unacceptable things are illegal. > What about 'login with Facebook' sites? Don't do that then. > We here know that we should change our password and logout of existing sessions ASAP after being made to do it, but our non-technical family members may not. If you've given access to your account to someone else, you've already lost, whether you log out quickly afterwards or not. Don't put yourself in a position in which you must log into an account you care about.
  - OJFord 10y ago
    You're missing my point entirely: People do 'login with Facebook'; people will (perhaps grudgingly) log in for them/hand over their password. You won't, I won't, but people will because they're asked to by the uniformed officer, despite how mad it is. I'm just amazed at the lack of significant opposition to this, there doesn't even really seem to be any opposition. Here on HN where one might expect it to be most opposed, we're merely discussing how to mitigate the effects (you can't, don't go - or be prepared to be turned around). I wouldn't pay for my own travel to the USA (while I've been before, and enjoyed my trips, etc.) because I'm not an idiot - and handing over a password is idiotic - and I can't really afford a wasted trip. Sure, sunk cost, whatever - the cost/risk isn't worth it, at least for now until it's shown that they rarely do it, and really it's only x,y,z countries from where I do not hail.
    - zeveb 10y ago

by graeme 10y ago

deong 10y ago

It doesn't matter what you have in your password manager. If you're not a US citizen, they can demand your facebook access. If you don't have it, can't unencrypt it, or just feel like telling them to fuck off doesn't matter. You have no legal right to enter the country except with their permission, and they may well tell the person who didn't put their facebook passwords in the password manager to get back on a plane and go home. US citizens have it better in at least that one regard. They can't keep me from entering the country. They can confiscate my laptop, but if I don't want to give them facebook access, there's not much they can do to stop me. They can of course add me to some list that makes my life miserable every time I fly, but there's no constitutional provision that allows preventing a citizen from entering the country.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rebuilder 10y ago
So basically, as a non-US citizen, if you don't bring a device that can log into your Facebook account, they might deny you entry? Of course rhey might deny you entry for any reason, and them caring so much about your social media accounts is probably a sign you're on a shitlist somewhere, so maybe it doesn't matter so much. I wonder, though, if you don't have FB etc. accounts, do they believe you?
- deong 10y ago
  I think the only way to interpret this that's even remotely practical to implement is that while they have the right to ask anything of anyone, in practice, it will likely be targeted. If they're asking, they probably already know quite a bit about you, including whether they think you match some social media profile they've red-flagged. I'm certainly not suggesting that Trump isn't stupid enough to think having CBP attempting to guess whether 800,000 grandmothers every hour are lying about not knowing what Facebook is would be a plan he could seamlessly roll out, but I think any such plan would crater pretty spectacularly.
- PeterisP 10y ago
  There's a big factor of subjective evaluation, but it can be quite effective. A large majority of people do have FB accounts, and even care about their FB accounts as illustrated by their worries about providing access to them. For most people they wouldn't bother to look, only a tiny fraction of travelers get their devices checked. And if you really don't have FB etc. accounts, they may believe you - I have little reason to doubt that; I feel that if that was their policy then we'd hear about many such cases. However, if you claim that you don't have a FB account and their automated system (seeded by the information submitted by the airline before your arrival) shows a FB account with your face, then that seems a sure way to get turned back at a border.
  - loeg 10y ago
    > shows a FB account with your face Which, amusingly, is a Facebook spammer strategy — clone someone's account, including profile picture. So even if you delete your account, there may be a spammer clone that shows up in CBP's database.
  - type0 10y ago
    So, basically there probably going to be honest people where they would tell the truth, that they don't use thefcnkfacebook but because some scammer has created a fake profile of them would be turned back at the border. Amazing brave new world we live in...

Sundiata 10y ago

What do you think would happen if you don't have facebook?

OJFord 10y ago

Why is this being accepted as even remotely reasonable? What about 'login with Facebook' sites? We here know that we should change our password and logout of existing sessions ASAP after being made to do it, but our non-technical family members may not. "Add TSA as a friend" is borderline reasonable, (pun intended) "give us your password" is not even close. It also damages public awareness of importance of maintaining secure and private passwords more generally.

zeveb 10y ago
> Why is this being accepted as even remotely reasonable? That it's unreasonable and unacceptable doesn't mean that it's illegal. Despite your and my hopes, not all unreasonable and unacceptable things are illegal. > What about 'login with Facebook' sites? Don't do that then. > We here know that we should change our password and logout of existing sessions ASAP after being made to do it, but our non-technical family members may not. If you've given access to your account to someone else, you've already lost, whether you log out quickly afterwards or not. Don't put yourself in a position in which you must log into an account you care about.
- OJFord 10y ago
  You're missing my point entirely: People do 'login with Facebook'; people will (perhaps grudgingly) log in for them/hand over their password. You won't, I won't, but people will because they're asked to by the uniformed officer, despite how mad it is. I'm just amazed at the lack of significant opposition to this, there doesn't even really seem to be any opposition. Here on HN where one might expect it to be most opposed, we're merely discussing how to mitigate the effects (you can't, don't go - or be prepared to be turned around). I wouldn't pay for my own travel to the USA (while I've been before, and enjoyed my trips, etc.) because I'm not an idiot - and handing over a password is idiotic - and I can't really afford a wasted trip. Sure, sunk cost, whatever - the cost/risk isn't worth it, at least for now until it's shown that they rarely do it, and really it's only x,y,z countries from where I do not hail.
  - zeveb 10y ago