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I believe there won't be any people around here that vote Republican that will support this. The GOP (we can discuss when it happened, but it definitely) has g

by e40 10y ago

I believe there won't be any people around here that vote Republican that will support this. The GOP (we can discuss when it happened, but it definitely) has gone off the rails in terms of supporting their constituents. They feed them red meat in terms of social issues, and then do what they want on economic and other issues, which are almost always completely pro-business and anti-labor.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
The following is less an attempt to start a partisan argument than to clarify the lines along which such arguments have taken place previously. >The GOP (we can discuss when it happened, but it definitely) has gone off the rails in terms of supporting their constituents. They feed them red meat in terms of social issues, and then do what they want on economic and other issues, which are almost always completely pro-business and anti-labor. Isn't that, well, normal? I was under the impression that anti-labor Republicanism started around the time of Ronald Reagan and continued indefinitely since then. If anything is especially original about what the Republican Party are doing now, it's that their Presidential candidate ran on an atypically liberal economic platform (no cuts to entitlement programs, major infrastructure spending, rebuilding the blue-collar jobs base in the Midwest), while their Congressional majority continue the traditional Reagan Republican legislative program. Precisely this division on economic issues, more than anything else, is what has always stopped me from voting Republican. It has done so even when I thought that some or another Republican, especially a moderate, had a valid point or two, or just seemed like a decent and honest person. For example, I always thought that John McCain seemed like an honorable, patriotic Senator who stood up for civil liberties and veterans, but oh well, 2008 was the middle of an economic crisis and the Republicans are anti-labor. So I voted a firm Obama instead of being a swing voter. What's the perception on the Republican side of the divide? That the party was originally pro-labor in its own way, but conservative on social issues? That there was an appropriate time in our history to be anti-labor?
thehardsphere 10y ago
I disagree with your assessment that Republican voters are primarily motivated by social issues, yet implicitly opposed to "pro-business and anti-labor" things. There are quite a few Republican voters who prefer them on (stated) economic issues and hold their nose when it comes to the social stuff. Really, the problem (or benefit, depending on your point of view) is that the two party system creates very broad coalitions of people with differing interests. The problem with the Republican coalition is that many of its constituents want things which are contradictory. Like, say, free market economic policies and stricter immigration (which is a form of labor market regulation). The Democrats have their own versions of these problems, but they're usually less obvious because their coalition is more explicitly transactional.
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  Yes, well said. I consider myself more of a Peter Thiel type of republican who supports the party on an economic basis but would really love to see the party abandon its culture wars.
- e40 10y ago
  I was talking solely about the non-HN, Republican crowd.
  - thehardsphere 10y ago
    So was I.

by e40 10y ago

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

The following is less an attempt to start a partisan argument than to clarify the lines along which such arguments have taken place previously. >The GOP (we can discuss when it happened, but it definitely) has gone off the rails in terms of supporting their constituents. They feed them red meat in terms of social issues, and then do what they want on economic and other issues, which are almost always completely pro-business and anti-labor. Isn't that, well, normal? I was under the impression that anti-labor Republicanism started around the time of Ronald Reagan and continued indefinitely since then. If anything is especially original about what the Republican Party are doing now, it's that their Presidential candidate ran on an atypically liberal economic platform (no cuts to entitlement programs, major infrastructure spending, rebuilding the blue-collar jobs base in the Midwest), while their Congressional majority continue the traditional Reagan Republican legislative program. Precisely this division on economic issues, more than anything else, is what has always stopped me from voting Republican. It has done so even when I thought that some or another Republican, especially a moderate, had a valid point or two, or just seemed like a decent and honest person. For example, I always thought that John McCain seemed like an honorable, patriotic Senator who stood up for civil liberties and veterans, but oh well, 2008 was the middle of an economic crisis and the Republicans are anti-labor. So I voted a firm Obama instead of being a swing voter. What's the perception on the Republican side of the divide? That the party was originally pro-labor in its own way, but conservative on social issues? That there was an appropriate time in our history to be anti-labor?

thehardsphere 10y ago

I disagree with your assessment that Republican voters are primarily motivated by social issues, yet implicitly opposed to "pro-business and anti-labor" things. There are quite a few Republican voters who prefer them on (stated) economic issues and hold their nose when it comes to the social stuff. Really, the problem (or benefit, depending on your point of view) is that the two party system creates very broad coalitions of people with differing interests. The problem with the Republican coalition is that many of its constituents want things which are contradictory. Like, say, free market economic policies and stricter immigration (which is a form of labor market regulation). The Democrats have their own versions of these problems, but they're usually less obvious because their coalition is more explicitly transactional.

blackflame7000 10y ago
Yes, well said. I consider myself more of a Peter Thiel type of republican who supports the party on an economic basis but would really love to see the party abandon its culture wars.
e40 10y ago
I was talking solely about the non-HN, Republican crowd.
- thehardsphere 10y ago
  So was I.