4 ms·

Far less than a convincing rebuttal, more like a character assassination. Sure it's hard to prove or even be sure of oppressive campaigns, but more importantly

by madair 16y ago

Far less than a convincing rebuttal, more like a character assassination. Sure it's hard to prove or even be sure of oppressive campaigns, but more importantly, it's hard to talk about because people who themselves are not experienced with activism have a hard time believing it, and they are right, some large percentage of the time the fears are not true. I think that article is objectively biased because it made no reasonable attempt to break it down with any sort of counterpoint risk analysis. That's what Government v Activists from the activist's point of view is all about, you have almost none of the power, and all of the risk, and entrenched powers have motivation to abuse typically for the greater good. And how on earth does the activist convince the skeptical Joe Sixpack (or Joe Corporate-Software-Developer, for that matter.) Which of his observations could be correct? Are any? Is he just paranoid? Well, if there's one Australian who can reasonably be paranoid it is Julian Assange. The dude is pissing off governments big time, all governments have a track record of oppression, hell the U.S. surpreme court just placed the decision for detention without habeus corpus for sex offenders who have done their time into the hands of local bumpkins. Hell, the POTUS just approved a targetted assassination of a U.S. citizen with no due process or proven claim without which we can only call it a political assassination. Thanks Gawker for fucking with the activists. Good luck Nick Denton when you publish your next dangerous article, why should activists fight for you?

tptacek 16y ago
Strong disagree. When you make overblown claims that later don't pan out, you do in fact sacrifice credibility. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to restate these ones: * That Assange was "tailed" on his trip to Iceland because two state department functionaries on their way to a conference shared a flight with him * That someone was harassed by Iceland for Wikileaks involvement when in fact he was being questioned about having stolen from Wikileaks. * That Facebook was squelching Wikileaks [thx, jm] when in fact they were replacing an unofficial unaffiliated Wikileaks group with an official one. I don't know what to think about the Kenyan "assassination attempt" claim, or Gawker's counterclaim, except to tell you that if you told me someone was engaging in political activism in Africa, I wouldn't see an assassination attempt as part of a global conspiracy involving the US, Australia, or Europe. The balance of your article presumes that governments are in fact threatened by Wikileaks. I don't think they are.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- madair 16y ago
  Maybe by a hundred wikileaks. Maybe by a culture that demands government transparency through fast and cheap Internet distrubution. LOL, no point arguing with a rock. Activism is so dangerous, you're funny.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    I don't think we have a fundamental disagreement about activism so much as that you are far, far more impressed with Wikileaks than I am.
    - madair 16y ago
      I'm impressed with activism, particularly activists like Assange who get off their butts and do far more than I've ever done. Sure it's not perfect, and sure its hyperbolic. I think you're far, far more concerned about hyperbole than I am. And if we need a better wikileaks, well that's an interesting point, clearly we need more, but better is hard, achievable, of course, but hard. And it costs a lot of safety, security, and mental peace for the individuals who take the plunge. And how to do it without paranoia in all its forms. It's a stressful career. And simply shouting when someone's murdered is all great and all, but it's nice not to be murdered, imprisoned, or restricted from travel in the first place.
- BRadmin 16y ago
  In his own article about the alleged tailing by state department officials Adrian Chen said: It seems a bit paranoia-tinged, but Wikileaks has good reason to be paranoid. They've already been labeled a security threat by the Pentagon, and if they do in fact have this air-strike video—and their past record suggests they do—there's no question that the U.S. is keeping a very close eye on them. http://gawker.com/5502461/exclusive-secret+sharing-website-wikileaks-offers-new-details-on-alleged-us-surveillance http://gawker.com/5502461/exclusive-secret+sharing-website-w...
- 16y ago
greendestiny 16y ago
I agree that its not a great rebuttal, especially because there are much better rebuttal's available for this particular instance. Cancelling worn passports and questioning people over their criminal conviction is absolutely standard operating procedure for customs, and I can't see why it shouldn't be? I'm not even sure how Assange thinks he was inconvenienced by it, let alone oppressed.
- madair 16y ago
  Powers choose who to apply legislation to.
  - greendestiny 16y ago
    Until there is any suggestion that Assange hasn't or won't be issued a new passport all the "Powers" have chosen to do is replace a worn passport and question someone at customs.
- kijeda 16y ago
  My immediate thought when I read the original report of this was exactly this. I am Australian and I travel frequently - I have a 64-page passport which is mostly full with 100s of stamp, and is so worn the laminate is peeling off the ID page. When I enter Australia in particular they often take it away to study and check, and advise me that I need to get it replaced or it will become a problem. I just had a customs official at Heathrow in the UK tell me the same just last month. What's more realistic? They want him to replace his tattered passport, or everyone is out to get him?
  - greendestiny 16y ago
    Its not that I doubt that governments want to screw with him, its just that this doesn't seem to be an example. This article makes it sound like they took his passport away - in his comments at the time he said they took the passport for 15 minutes then returned it and told him it would be or was cancelled because its worn.

by madair 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

Strong disagree. When you make overblown claims that later don't pan out, you do in fact sacrifice credibility. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to restate these ones: * That Assange was "tailed" on his trip to Iceland because two state department functionaries on their way to a conference shared a flight with him * That someone was harassed by Iceland for Wikileaks involvement when in fact he was being questioned about having stolen from Wikileaks. * That Facebook was squelching Wikileaks [thx, jm] when in fact they were replacing an unofficial unaffiliated Wikileaks group with an official one. I don't know what to think about the Kenyan "assassination attempt" claim, or Gawker's counterclaim, except to tell you that if you told me someone was engaging in political activism in Africa, I wouldn't see an assassination attempt as part of a global conspiracy involving the US, Australia, or Europe. The balance of your article presumes that governments are in fact threatened by Wikileaks. I don't think they are.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
madair 16y ago
Maybe by a hundred wikileaks. Maybe by a culture that demands government transparency through fast and cheap Internet distrubution. LOL, no point arguing with a rock. Activism is so dangerous, you're funny.
- tptacek 16y ago
  I don't think we have a fundamental disagreement about activism so much as that you are far, far more impressed with Wikileaks than I am.
  - madair 16y ago
    I'm impressed with activism, particularly activists like Assange who get off their butts and do far more than I've ever done. Sure it's not perfect, and sure its hyperbolic. I think you're far, far more concerned about hyperbole than I am. And if we need a better wikileaks, well that's an interesting point, clearly we need more, but better is hard, achievable, of course, but hard. And it costs a lot of safety, security, and mental peace for the individuals who take the plunge. And how to do it without paranoia in all its forms. It's a stressful career. And simply shouting when someone's murdered is all great and all, but it's nice not to be murdered, imprisoned, or restricted from travel in the first place.
BRadmin 16y ago
In his own article about the alleged tailing by state department officials Adrian Chen said: It seems a bit paranoia-tinged, but Wikileaks has good reason to be paranoid. They've already been labeled a security threat by the Pentagon, and if they do in fact have this air-strike video—and their past record suggests they do—there's no question that the U.S. is keeping a very close eye on them. http://gawker.com/5502461/exclusive-secret+sharing-website-wikileaks-offers-new-details-on-alleged-us-surveillance http://gawker.com/5502461/exclusive-secret+sharing-website-w...
16y ago

greendestiny 16y ago

I agree that its not a great rebuttal, especially because there are much better rebuttal's available for this particular instance. Cancelling worn passports and questioning people over their criminal conviction is absolutely standard operating procedure for customs, and I can't see why it shouldn't be? I'm not even sure how Assange thinks he was inconvenienced by it, let alone oppressed.

madair 16y ago
Powers choose who to apply legislation to.
- greendestiny 16y ago
  Until there is any suggestion that Assange hasn't or won't be issued a new passport all the "Powers" have chosen to do is replace a worn passport and question someone at customs.
kijeda 16y ago
My immediate thought when I read the original report of this was exactly this. I am Australian and I travel frequently - I have a 64-page passport which is mostly full with 100s of stamp, and is so worn the laminate is peeling off the ID page. When I enter Australia in particular they often take it away to study and check, and advise me that I need to get it replaced or it will become a problem. I just had a customs official at Heathrow in the UK tell me the same just last month. What's more realistic? They want him to replace his tattered passport, or everyone is out to get him?
- greendestiny 16y ago
  Its not that I doubt that governments want to screw with him, its just that this doesn't seem to be an example. This article makes it sound like they took his passport away - in his comments at the time he said they took the passport for 15 minutes then returned it and told him it would be or was cancelled because its worn.