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Ridiculous arguments don't foster rational debate. We know their are training camps abroad. We know there are no training camps within our borders. What if spac

Ridiculous arguments don't foster rational debate. We know their are training camps abroad. We know there are no training camps within our borders. What if space aliens are controlling our leaders brains?

cr0sh 10y ago
> We know there are no training camps within our borders. No training camps here: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/a-militia-gets-battle-ready-for-a-gun-grabbing-clinton-presidency.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/a-militia-gets-battle-...
mikeash 10y ago
What's ridiculous about them? We've seen plenty of home-grown terrorism. I'm not sure if searching social media profiles would ever have prevented an attack in the US, for example, whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  > whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have. I upvoted your original comment because I am pretty sure it was meant as sarcasm. I certainly hope I am still correct on that assessment. There was a time, not long ago, certainly within my memory and the memories of many others - when we as a country (the USA as well as other countries) looked down upon such activities as being wholly un-American and against our values. We looked on in fear and concern as we heard about what went on in Eastern European countries behind the Iron Curtain - where people risked their lives and freedom braving bullets and who-knows-what-else attempting to cross that divide. Some even made it. And we cheered when the wall fell. WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO US?
  - krapp 10y ago
    >WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO US? We were attacked on 9/11, and our government succeeded in convincing many of us that the rights we were taking for granted were in fact making us vulnerable to an existential enemy within, and needed to be incrementally deconstructed in light of the "new normal."
  - mikeash 10y ago
    You are correct. The whole comment was intended as a reductio ad absurdum. I understand that sarcasm is tough to detect, though, so I can see why you might be worried! I am serious that internal checkpoints and random house searches could have prevented past terrorist attacks, and would probably prevent future ones. I don't, however, think it's a worthwhile tradeoff, not even close.
yread 10y ago
> We know there are no training camps within our borders You're probably talking about US but for EU it might not be true, FWIW: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12120636/Islamic-State-setting-up-terror-training-camps-in-Europe-police-agency-warns.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/1212... Though it might also be just Airsoft venues http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/extremist-training-camps-ardennes http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/extremist-training-camps-...
bfuller 10y ago
Maybe no training camps of the Islamic extremist variety but there are for sure right wing militia groups operating training camps on American soil
bfuller 10y ago
Maybe no training camps of the Islamic extremist variety but there are for sure right wing militia groups operating training camps on American soil

cr0sh 10y ago

> We know there are no training camps within our borders. No training camps here: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/a-militia-gets-battle-ready-for-a-gun-grabbing-clinton-presidency.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/a-militia-gets-battle-...

mikeash 10y ago

What's ridiculous about them? We've seen plenty of home-grown terrorism. I'm not sure if searching social media profiles would ever have prevented an attack in the US, for example, whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have.

cr0sh 10y ago
> whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have. I upvoted your original comment because I am pretty sure it was meant as sarcasm. I certainly hope I am still correct on that assessment. There was a time, not long ago, certainly within my memory and the memories of many others - when we as a country (the USA as well as other countries) looked down upon such activities as being wholly un-American and against our values. We looked on in fear and concern as we heard about what went on in Eastern European countries behind the Iron Curtain - where people risked their lives and freedom braving bullets and who-knows-what-else attempting to cross that divide. Some even made it. And we cheered when the wall fell. WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO US?
- krapp 10y ago
  >WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO US? We were attacked on 9/11, and our government succeeded in convincing many of us that the rights we were taking for granted were in fact making us vulnerable to an existential enemy within, and needed to be incrementally deconstructed in light of the "new normal."
- mikeash 10y ago
  You are correct. The whole comment was intended as a reductio ad absurdum. I understand that sarcasm is tough to detect, though, so I can see why you might be worried! I am serious that internal checkpoints and random house searches could have prevented past terrorist attacks, and would probably prevent future ones. I don't, however, think it's a worthwhile tradeoff, not even close.

yread 10y ago

> We know there are no training camps within our borders You're probably talking about US but for EU it might not be true, FWIW: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12120636/Islamic-State-setting-up-terror-training-camps-in-Europe-police-agency-warns.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/1212... Though it might also be just Airsoft venues http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/extremist-training-camps-ardennes http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/extremist-training-camps-...

bfuller 10y ago

Maybe no training camps of the Islamic extremist variety but there are for sure right wing militia groups operating training camps on American soil

bfuller 10y ago

Maybe no training camps of the Islamic extremist variety but there are for sure right wing militia groups operating training camps on American soil