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I wonder how possible it would be to create a jailed environment on Android or iOS that can not access any of the data on your phone and could be entered by put

I wonder how possible it would be to create a jailed environment on Android or iOS that can not access any of the data on your phone and could be entered by putting in a false password. That would allow you to enter your "password" on-demand and then only present a jailed process to those seeking to violate your privacy. It could appear to be a full experience, but not actually contain any personal data, or contain false data. I imagine it would be illegal, but there may be a market for it.

problems 10y ago
In the Android world there exists a system called MultiROM, it allows you to have multiple ROMs installed on your phone with separate data partitions. You could theoretically load one ROM up with all your personal data (and have it encrypted) then have another for customs usage, just boot it up before you reach the agent. Remember to load it with plausible data to prevent any suspicions and you should be good to go. The odds of the border agent messing around in your recovery to boot the other ROM... I'd say fairly low. This may be a practical solution today for people who want privacy at the border.
- Asooka 10y ago
  But if they use standardised tools those would probably have the capability of dumping your entire flash since someone would want to do so.
  - problems 10y ago
    I don't think border security agents are dumping your entire flash - they're mostly just say, thumbing through messages to make sure you're not attempting to work illegally while on a vacation visa. Dumping your entire flash would take a serious amount of time and would be so varied from device to device that it'd likely be impossible in practice.
    - tylerhou 10y ago
      Also presumably your actual data would be encrypted.
wry_discontent 10y ago
Why would it be illegal? They told you to put in your password, and you put in one of your passwords. If they want to fuck with technology and they're too stupid to understand it, that's their loss.
- mindslight 10y ago
  It's illegal because the primary function of the modern legal system is to protect the status quo powers. It's hard to outsmart a system when its whole purpose is to mitigate cleverness! The best you can do is make the process as frictionless as possible for the border thugs, to get them to mislead themselves. For instance, imagine encrypted steganographic storage that seamlessly unlocks with a key retrieved from a remote server. If a GPS fix says you're in a dangerous area (eg border crossing), the server only unlocks the uninteresting bits [0]. A connection from your home network and/or designated third party is then required to switch the server's mode back to supplying full functionality. And this needs to become the default mode of operation for a sizable chunk of phones, so that the "intent" bullshit becomes inapplicable. This is how the legal system works - you can only obtain safety through technical means en masse. Yes, we have a long hill to climb. [0] Obviously this is trusting the phone and could be spoofed, but this isn't the threat model. The point is to make the behavior change passively.
- jdbernard 10y ago
  They aren't all too stupid to understand it, which would be why it would eventually be illegal to use such technology to deceive border patrol or other agents of the lawful government.
  - vkou 10y ago
    It's already to lie to border agents (And unlocking only one of your hidden partitions, when requested to, is a lie.) Whether or not they will find out about your lie is a different question.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  > Why would it be illegal? Well, most likely because things like "obstruction of justice" are crimes. I don't really get the notion that the law works like Airbud, where the rules have to be specific and anything not banned is permitted. It's totally possible to criminalize subjective things like "trying to trick us" which apply even if the means used are novel and not banned.
jimmies 10y ago
It's called deniable encryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption), and there are several software packages that can utilize it.
- kylec 10y ago
  A big flaw of deniable encryption software is that it's only used by people who use the deniable part, so its use strongly suggests the existence of such hidden data. Whether or not that's sufficient to detain someone and demand that they produce the additional password will vary depending on various jurisdictions' laws, but I personally wouldn't tempt fate with it.
  - baq 10y ago
    it's the same with a phone that underwent factory reset during the walk from the plane to the first customs officer... you're suspect either way. similar with not having a phone at all - pretty much everybody who can afford to fly halfway across the world should be able to afford a phone. don't have one? suspect.
  - problems 10y ago
    Not really - plenty of people use TrueCrypt to encrypt their drive without using the hidden OS feature for example.
  - blazespin 10y ago
    Yes, we need this as a feature of iOS and Android. Type one password - decrypt a clean version of your phone. Type another password or use a different fingerprint - decrypt another version of your phone. They'd have to make it so you can't tell the difference between a phone with a deniable section versus one that does.
- AlexB138 10y ago
  As usual, others are far ahead of me. Thanks for the citation!
dkonofalski 10y ago
I was thinking this exact thing. The new "Airplane Mode", if you will.
godshatter 10y ago
The Blackphone is supposed to have profiles that are separated from each other so that data isn't accessible across profiles at the hardware level. If that were obfuscated, then that might help. Of course, just having a Blackphone will probably get you targeted anyway and they will already know about its capabilities.

problems 10y ago

In the Android world there exists a system called MultiROM, it allows you to have multiple ROMs installed on your phone with separate data partitions. You could theoretically load one ROM up with all your personal data (and have it encrypted) then have another for customs usage, just boot it up before you reach the agent. Remember to load it with plausible data to prevent any suspicions and you should be good to go. The odds of the border agent messing around in your recovery to boot the other ROM... I'd say fairly low. This may be a practical solution today for people who want privacy at the border.

Asooka 10y ago
But if they use standardised tools those would probably have the capability of dumping your entire flash since someone would want to do so.
- problems 10y ago
  I don't think border security agents are dumping your entire flash - they're mostly just say, thumbing through messages to make sure you're not attempting to work illegally while on a vacation visa. Dumping your entire flash would take a serious amount of time and would be so varied from device to device that it'd likely be impossible in practice.
  - tylerhou 10y ago
    Also presumably your actual data would be encrypted.

wry_discontent 10y ago

Why would it be illegal? They told you to put in your password, and you put in one of your passwords. If they want to fuck with technology and they're too stupid to understand it, that's their loss.

mindslight 10y ago
It's illegal because the primary function of the modern legal system is to protect the status quo powers. It's hard to outsmart a system when its whole purpose is to mitigate cleverness! The best you can do is make the process as frictionless as possible for the border thugs, to get them to mislead themselves. For instance, imagine encrypted steganographic storage that seamlessly unlocks with a key retrieved from a remote server. If a GPS fix says you're in a dangerous area (eg border crossing), the server only unlocks the uninteresting bits [0]. A connection from your home network and/or designated third party is then required to switch the server's mode back to supplying full functionality. And this needs to become the default mode of operation for a sizable chunk of phones, so that the "intent" bullshit becomes inapplicable. This is how the legal system works - you can only obtain safety through technical means en masse. Yes, we have a long hill to climb. [0] Obviously this is trusting the phone and could be spoofed, but this isn't the threat model. The point is to make the behavior change passively.
jdbernard 10y ago
They aren't all too stupid to understand it, which would be why it would eventually be illegal to use such technology to deceive border patrol or other agents of the lawful government.
- vkou 10y ago
  It's already to lie to border agents (And unlocking only one of your hidden partitions, when requested to, is a lie.) Whether or not they will find out about your lie is a different question.
Bartweiss 10y ago
> Why would it be illegal? Well, most likely because things like "obstruction of justice" are crimes. I don't really get the notion that the law works like Airbud, where the rules have to be specific and anything not banned is permitted. It's totally possible to criminalize subjective things like "trying to trick us" which apply even if the means used are novel and not banned.

jimmies 10y ago

It's called deniable encryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption), and there are several software packages that can utilize it.

kylec 10y ago
A big flaw of deniable encryption software is that it's only used by people who use the deniable part, so its use strongly suggests the existence of such hidden data. Whether or not that's sufficient to detain someone and demand that they produce the additional password will vary depending on various jurisdictions' laws, but I personally wouldn't tempt fate with it.
- baq 10y ago
  it's the same with a phone that underwent factory reset during the walk from the plane to the first customs officer... you're suspect either way. similar with not having a phone at all - pretty much everybody who can afford to fly halfway across the world should be able to afford a phone. don't have one? suspect.
- problems 10y ago
  Not really - plenty of people use TrueCrypt to encrypt their drive without using the hidden OS feature for example.
- blazespin 10y ago
  Yes, we need this as a feature of iOS and Android. Type one password - decrypt a clean version of your phone. Type another password or use a different fingerprint - decrypt another version of your phone. They'd have to make it so you can't tell the difference between a phone with a deniable section versus one that does.
AlexB138 10y ago
As usual, others are far ahead of me. Thanks for the citation!

dkonofalski 10y ago

I was thinking this exact thing. The new "Airplane Mode", if you will.

godshatter 10y ago

The Blackphone is supposed to have profiles that are separated from each other so that data isn't accessible across profiles at the hardware level. If that were obfuscated, then that might help. Of course, just having a Blackphone will probably get you targeted anyway and they will already know about its capabilities.