6 ms·

What advice you would give to someone in their 20s who often find themselves at loss of motivation or drive.

fatalogic 10y ago
You have to figure out your why. It also helps if you have something to remind you of your why every day like a picture or saying. Then it become a mantra. I started learning to program at 25. In my earlier years I wasn't very motivated but then I was faced with my mortality and that can be a pretty great motivator. You only live once so why not try to make the most out of every day.
cableshaft 10y ago
You could try to think of it more as play (maybe 'intense play'). You're not 'learning how to program so I can get a well paying job', you're trying to get that image on the screen and want it to animate and move with keypresses because that would be neat if you could do that. Or make a simple webpage to show off your recent vacation that has a gallery widget that works exactly the way you envisioned that you made yourself, then show it to your friends and family and let them go "ooh, that's neat!". Or that one manual, boring process you have to do over and over again for...whatever, that takes so much time and bores you to tears. Why not try to figure out a way to write a small python or bash script to automate it? Keep doing little things that seem neat, and eventually you'll gain the confidence to tackle big things that seem neat, and eventually you'll be ready to tackle business needs that are a bit less fun but have a much greater effect on people. I didn't learn how to program by tackling business problems right away. I learned how to program by making tiny text-driven games just for me to play with, then later I got into web development by trying to make my own personal website, then I got into mobile development by trying to get a Flash game of mine onto my phone (in J2ME on the N-Gage! and later Objective-C on an iPhone), etc. Currenty I'm going through a book on Unity and making a guy move around a maze and shoot at boxes. When I program in my off time, I'm playing, not really learning. But as a happy side effect, I'm learning at the same time.
mafribe 10y ago
Loss of motivation and drive is quite normal and happens to everybody from time to time. I'm inclined to think that success in life depends to a substantial part in how one manages productively to overcome (or at least manage) lack of motivation. I suggest to organise your life in a way that you have additional mechanisms to grind through those moments when you loose motivation. Here are some examples. I'm not saying they always work, or they are for everyone. I'm just throwing out some examples in order to communicate a general idea. - If you want to loose weight, remove food from your house, so you cannot simply snack to quell boredom. - If you want to learn subject XYZ, join a school/university/course/bootcamp teaching XYZ with a firm schedule, regular homework, exams that you can fail and other students - If you want to learn subject XYZ, teach it to others (in a generalised sense) in public. The fear of looking like an idiot in front of others is a good motivator. - Create social obligations with others for doing XYZ, so that the fear of violating those obligation, with the concomitant expected loss in social standing is additional motivation. - Control frivolous spending by engaging in a contract such a as a mortgage that forces you to save regularly, so as to avoid the substantial disadvantages of defaulting on a mortgage. - An extreme case is having children, for with children the well-being of what you value most in life now strongly depends on yourself being productive. What they all have in common is that your desired behaviour XYZ suddenly no longer only depends on your subjective and mercurial moods regarding XYZ, but are now tied together with other goals G1, G2, ... Gn of yours. The probability that you loose interest in all of XYZ, G1, G2, ... Gn at the same time is substantially lower than with just XYZ alone. In other words, make several of your life goals align and mutually reinforce each other.
mod 10y ago
https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=113 https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=113 Quit thinking you need to have motivation!
- regulation_d 10y ago
  I'll confess that didn't watch this entire interview, but what I did hear can be summed up in this quote(@ 3:45): You only feel motivated to do the things that are easy. And for me that describes a difference in how I feel about software development than I did about practicing law or any of the other career paths I tried. In software, I found something that I enjoy even when it's difficult. What I do with that information, I don't really know. On the one hand, I feel like I hit the jackpot. I get paid to make stuff on computers work. I did this before for free, but now I get to do it using better tools where the possibilities are incredibly vast and the money is pretty good. I don't really know what to say to people who haven't found what they're looking for yet. I went through three careers before I found one I really enjoyed, but I don't know that I should recommend that path, right? There's an interesting Freakonomics podcast episode about minor baseball players who, by every conceivable metric, should give up on their dreams. http://freakonomics.com/podcast/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/new-freakonomics-radio-podca... But that's a really hard thing to say to someone. At the end of the day, I agree with your point that you don't need motivation, but geez, if you find it, it sure is pretty great. The question is, what are we willing to give up in order to find it? It's not an easy question.
  - Joof 10y ago
    I must be a freak of nature. I'm only motivated when it's difficult.
kemiller2002 10y ago
1. Don't force it. You can spend time grinding through something, and it's never going to be as good as if you do when you hit it fresh. You need to rest and take time away from things, then the time you spend working on it will be more productive. 2. You have to take care of yourself. Regulating your caffeine, alcohol, sugar, etc. intake is important. You don't have to hit the gym 2 hours a day, but taking a short walk or something else, really helps. If you are always tired/sick you are never going to be at your best, and you'll eventually waste more time than you are actually being productive. 3. Understand what motivates you. You can't get into something for the wrong reasons. I program, because I like programming. If you start something, because it's a means to an end (like I want to program, so I can make a lot of money), ultimately, you aren't going to do well.
- cpursley 10y ago
  > You don't have to hit the gym 2 hours a day I'd recommend that you make the time to hit the gym at least three times a week and lift (it really only takes 45 minutes per session). The goal is not to get ripped; it's to get healthy and balanced. Beyond the physical improvements, it makes a huge difference in confidence, motivation, and concentration. We're still physical beings after all.
  - SketchySeaBeast 10y ago
    I know for myself it really changed how I felt when I made the move to barbell training. Heavy compound lifts require a sort of zen-like focus that really clears my mind and re-centers me. I can't tell you the number of times I've walked out of the gym with my mood having done a complete 180 from when I walked in.
    - magic_beans 10y ago
      I'm at the point now that if I come into work without having worked out that morning, I actually feel sad.
savanaly 10y ago
You might find this interesting: http://web.archive.org/web/20160227122619/http://www.structuredprocrastination.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20160227122619/http://www.structu...
criddell 10y ago
In the back of his Ruby book, Zed Shaw gives some great advice that I think is worth reading: https://learnrubythehardway.org/book/advice.html https://learnrubythehardway.org/book/advice.html I think the standout piece of advice in that is to use code as a secret weapon in another profession.
- verisimilidude 10y ago
  That advice, using code as a secret weapon in another profession, is great. But it comes with a huge caveat: it can bite you in the ass. I've automated myself out of my own editorial/publishing jobs twice now. No regrets though. My mantra is that if you're not striving to automate yourself out of your own job these days, then you're holding something back, and not truly contributing your most valuable work.
  - hahajk 10y ago
    If a person demonstrated that he can create software that can do the job of a human at a fraction of the cost, why on earth would a company get rid of that golden goose?
    - verisimilidude 10y ago
      I've had a lot of time to think about that (been unemployed for a couple months now), and have come up with a few reasons. * All of your reputation within an organization can vanish following the wrong change in management (especially executive management) or organizational structure. A new manager may take for granted all the great things you automated if he/she never saw the prior pain and inefficiency. That new manager may then look at you, see someone who doesn't have a clearly defined role anymore, and fail to understand the long-term value. You can only sell yourself for so long; if you can't pull another magic rabbit out of your ass for the new management, and quickly, then you'll be gone. * Once you've automated yourself out of your own job, naturally people will notice and you'll start getting invited to work on other problems throughout the organization. In domain professions, which are often occupied by folks who have been doing things the same way for decades, this can be hugely intimidating and even threatening for others. I've been aware of this throughout my work and have always sought participation and consensus from those who might be affected by my work, but some minds are easier to win than others. Combine a few of these bad apples with the above change in management, and poof.
myowncrapulence 10y ago
Become poor and try finding a job in programming. Seriously, this was the biggest motivation for me to learn what I did. Got me to take it seriously as a means of survival.
- jmgordon 10y ago
  ^This... The survival factor played an enormous role in my drive to land my first programming job. I was 27 and had recently decided to leave the physics PhD program I was in (I was tired of being in college, burnt out dealing with my advisor, and in general uninterested in my line of research). For additional pressure include a wife, four year old, and baby on the way. I frantically applied to everything I could find and eventually landed a junior developer position. Almost three years later (and at different company) I am very happy that I made the push. My only regret is that I did not start my programming career earlier in life.
kaspiCZ 10y ago
In case my story helps: Below are the results. The road was hard. I experienced a similar bump when transitioning from high school to university and then right before my bachelor's degree. I was looking for something. Had no idea what it was. Everyone else seemed to be doing fine. It was very frustrating and demotivational. I cleared the first bump by meeting a great group that accepted me and challenged my wit every waking minute with them. It helped me turn my brain on not only for school, but I also started working. Even though I still had no sense of direction and constantly training my brain on the world around brought about a period of numbness and depression, I was very focused on any task I either had to do or wanted to learn. The second bump was university where I was already working/studying 50/50. Had to choose work or school and I chose both. It worked out. Put aside the fact it was the wrong masters or even the wrong university, I pulled it off just to prove a point to myself. I've started aiming very high in math, optimization, complexity. I was bad at all of them, but my reasoning behind that was "master this and you will be beyond fabulous". Studying on my own helped a ton. The books that don't make sense in course start making sense, because there is no one else but you to interpret them. Now at 33 I am finally getting constant influx of challenges and new problems to play with. And I am ready, because I chose not to shut my brain off earlier. I may not be the "happy" type, but as long as I can use my mind and get constantly challenged, I don't feel the desperation I used to. One last thing. I had abysmally low self-esteem. I still struggle, because I have a lot of more intelligent and/or accomplished people around me. Though that's better than the other way around, because it keeps you on your toes and eventually you can learn how not to underestimate and degrade yourself. I learned that I cannot compare to everyone, but I can try to get as close as possible by working hard. Advice to my past self: 1 constantly think about everything 2 try to get to the bottom of it 3 study on your own 4 if your spec sucks, switch masters early 5 try lots of different courses 6 aim higher, even if you cannot make it 7 be skeptical, but learn to assess your value better 8 don't think small, e. g. only in terms of your country

You have to figure out your why. It also helps if you have something to remind you of your why every day like a picture or saying. Then it become a mantra. I started learning to program at 25. In my earlier years I wasn't very motivated but then I was faced with my mortality and that can be a pretty great motivator. You only live once so why not try to make the most out of every day.

cableshaft 10y ago

You could try to think of it more as play (maybe 'intense play'). You're not 'learning how to program so I can get a well paying job', you're trying to get that image on the screen and want it to animate and move with keypresses because that would be neat if you could do that. Or make a simple webpage to show off your recent vacation that has a gallery widget that works exactly the way you envisioned that you made yourself, then show it to your friends and family and let them go "ooh, that's neat!". Or that one manual, boring process you have to do over and over again for...whatever, that takes so much time and bores you to tears. Why not try to figure out a way to write a small python or bash script to automate it? Keep doing little things that seem neat, and eventually you'll gain the confidence to tackle big things that seem neat, and eventually you'll be ready to tackle business needs that are a bit less fun but have a much greater effect on people. I didn't learn how to program by tackling business problems right away. I learned how to program by making tiny text-driven games just for me to play with, then later I got into web development by trying to make my own personal website, then I got into mobile development by trying to get a Flash game of mine onto my phone (in J2ME on the N-Gage! and later Objective-C on an iPhone), etc. Currenty I'm going through a book on Unity and making a guy move around a maze and shoot at boxes. When I program in my off time, I'm playing, not really learning. But as a happy side effect, I'm learning at the same time.

mafribe 10y ago

Loss of motivation and drive is quite normal and happens to everybody from time to time. I'm inclined to think that success in life depends to a substantial part in how one manages productively to overcome (or at least manage) lack of motivation. I suggest to organise your life in a way that you have additional mechanisms to grind through those moments when you loose motivation. Here are some examples. I'm not saying they always work, or they are for everyone. I'm just throwing out some examples in order to communicate a general idea. - If you want to loose weight, remove food from your house, so you cannot simply snack to quell boredom. - If you want to learn subject XYZ, join a school/university/course/bootcamp teaching XYZ with a firm schedule, regular homework, exams that you can fail and other students - If you want to learn subject XYZ, teach it to others (in a generalised sense) in public. The fear of looking like an idiot in front of others is a good motivator. - Create social obligations with others for doing XYZ, so that the fear of violating those obligation, with the concomitant expected loss in social standing is additional motivation. - Control frivolous spending by engaging in a contract such a as a mortgage that forces you to save regularly, so as to avoid the substantial disadvantages of defaulting on a mortgage. - An extreme case is having children, for with children the well-being of what you value most in life now strongly depends on yourself being productive. What they all have in common is that your desired behaviour XYZ suddenly no longer only depends on your subjective and mercurial moods regarding XYZ, but are now tied together with other goals G1, G2, ... Gn of yours. The probability that you loose interest in all of XYZ, G1, G2, ... Gn at the same time is substantially lower than with just XYZ alone. In other words, make several of your life goals align and mutually reinforce each other.

mod 10y ago

https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=113 https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=113 Quit thinking you need to have motivation!

regulation_d 10y ago
I'll confess that didn't watch this entire interview, but what I did hear can be summed up in this quote(@ 3:45): You only feel motivated to do the things that are easy. And for me that describes a difference in how I feel about software development than I did about practicing law or any of the other career paths I tried. In software, I found something that I enjoy even when it's difficult. What I do with that information, I don't really know. On the one hand, I feel like I hit the jackpot. I get paid to make stuff on computers work. I did this before for free, but now I get to do it using better tools where the possibilities are incredibly vast and the money is pretty good. I don't really know what to say to people who haven't found what they're looking for yet. I went through three careers before I found one I really enjoyed, but I don't know that I should recommend that path, right? There's an interesting Freakonomics podcast episode about minor baseball players who, by every conceivable metric, should give up on their dreams. http://freakonomics.com/podcast/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/new-freakonomics-radio-podca... But that's a really hard thing to say to someone. At the end of the day, I agree with your point that you don't need motivation, but geez, if you find it, it sure is pretty great. The question is, what are we willing to give up in order to find it? It's not an easy question.
- Joof 10y ago
  I must be a freak of nature. I'm only motivated when it's difficult.

kemiller2002 10y ago

1. Don't force it. You can spend time grinding through something, and it's never going to be as good as if you do when you hit it fresh. You need to rest and take time away from things, then the time you spend working on it will be more productive. 2. You have to take care of yourself. Regulating your caffeine, alcohol, sugar, etc. intake is important. You don't have to hit the gym 2 hours a day, but taking a short walk or something else, really helps. If you are always tired/sick you are never going to be at your best, and you'll eventually waste more time than you are actually being productive. 3. Understand what motivates you. You can't get into something for the wrong reasons. I program, because I like programming. If you start something, because it's a means to an end (like I want to program, so I can make a lot of money), ultimately, you aren't going to do well.

cpursley 10y ago
> You don't have to hit the gym 2 hours a day I'd recommend that you make the time to hit the gym at least three times a week and lift (it really only takes 45 minutes per session). The goal is not to get ripped; it's to get healthy and balanced. Beyond the physical improvements, it makes a huge difference in confidence, motivation, and concentration. We're still physical beings after all.
- SketchySeaBeast 10y ago
  I know for myself it really changed how I felt when I made the move to barbell training. Heavy compound lifts require a sort of zen-like focus that really clears my mind and re-centers me. I can't tell you the number of times I've walked out of the gym with my mood having done a complete 180 from when I walked in.
  - magic_beans 10y ago
    I'm at the point now that if I come into work without having worked out that morning, I actually feel sad.

savanaly 10y ago

You might find this interesting: http://web.archive.org/web/20160227122619/http://www.structuredprocrastination.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20160227122619/http://www.structu...

criddell 10y ago

In the back of his Ruby book, Zed Shaw gives some great advice that I think is worth reading: https://learnrubythehardway.org/book/advice.html https://learnrubythehardway.org/book/advice.html I think the standout piece of advice in that is to use code as a secret weapon in another profession.

verisimilidude 10y ago
That advice, using code as a secret weapon in another profession, is great. But it comes with a huge caveat: it can bite you in the ass. I've automated myself out of my own editorial/publishing jobs twice now. No regrets though. My mantra is that if you're not striving to automate yourself out of your own job these days, then you're holding something back, and not truly contributing your most valuable work.
- hahajk 10y ago
  If a person demonstrated that he can create software that can do the job of a human at a fraction of the cost, why on earth would a company get rid of that golden goose?
  - verisimilidude 10y ago
    I've had a lot of time to think about that (been unemployed for a couple months now), and have come up with a few reasons. * All of your reputation within an organization can vanish following the wrong change in management (especially executive management) or organizational structure. A new manager may take for granted all the great things you automated if he/she never saw the prior pain and inefficiency. That new manager may then look at you, see someone who doesn't have a clearly defined role anymore, and fail to understand the long-term value. You can only sell yourself for so long; if you can't pull another magic rabbit out of your ass for the new management, and quickly, then you'll be gone. * Once you've automated yourself out of your own job, naturally people will notice and you'll start getting invited to work on other problems throughout the organization. In domain professions, which are often occupied by folks who have been doing things the same way for decades, this can be hugely intimidating and even threatening for others. I've been aware of this throughout my work and have always sought participation and consensus from those who might be affected by my work, but some minds are easier to win than others. Combine a few of these bad apples with the above change in management, and poof.

myowncrapulence 10y ago

Become poor and try finding a job in programming. Seriously, this was the biggest motivation for me to learn what I did. Got me to take it seriously as a means of survival.

jmgordon 10y ago
^This... The survival factor played an enormous role in my drive to land my first programming job. I was 27 and had recently decided to leave the physics PhD program I was in (I was tired of being in college, burnt out dealing with my advisor, and in general uninterested in my line of research). For additional pressure include a wife, four year old, and baby on the way. I frantically applied to everything I could find and eventually landed a junior developer position. Almost three years later (and at different company) I am very happy that I made the push. My only regret is that I did not start my programming career earlier in life.

kaspiCZ 10y ago

In case my story helps: Below are the results. The road was hard. I experienced a similar bump when transitioning from high school to university and then right before my bachelor's degree. I was looking for something. Had no idea what it was. Everyone else seemed to be doing fine. It was very frustrating and demotivational. I cleared the first bump by meeting a great group that accepted me and challenged my wit every waking minute with them. It helped me turn my brain on not only for school, but I also started working. Even though I still had no sense of direction and constantly training my brain on the world around brought about a period of numbness and depression, I was very focused on any task I either had to do or wanted to learn. The second bump was university where I was already working/studying 50/50. Had to choose work or school and I chose both. It worked out. Put aside the fact it was the wrong masters or even the wrong university, I pulled it off just to prove a point to myself. I've started aiming very high in math, optimization, complexity. I was bad at all of them, but my reasoning behind that was "master this and you will be beyond fabulous". Studying on my own helped a ton. The books that don't make sense in course start making sense, because there is no one else but you to interpret them. Now at 33 I am finally getting constant influx of challenges and new problems to play with. And I am ready, because I chose not to shut my brain off earlier. I may not be the "happy" type, but as long as I can use my mind and get constantly challenged, I don't feel the desperation I used to. One last thing. I had abysmally low self-esteem. I still struggle, because I have a lot of more intelligent and/or accomplished people around me. Though that's better than the other way around, because it keeps you on your toes and eventually you can learn how not to underestimate and degrade yourself. I learned that I cannot compare to everyone, but I can try to get as close as possible by working hard. Advice to my past self: 1 constantly think about everything 2 try to get to the bottom of it 3 study on your own 4 if your spec sucks, switch masters early 5 try lots of different courses 6 aim higher, even if you cannot make it 7 be skeptical, but learn to assess your value better 8 don't think small, e. g. only in terms of your country