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So people like those who attacked the professor in sweden are all coordinating to get the media all riled up and scare the shit out of me and thus making me rip

by fgf 16y ago

So people like those who attacked the professor in sweden are all coordinating to get the media all riled up and scare the shit out of me and thus making me ripe for manipulation by evil politicians? I think not. My strategy is easy. Repeat the pattern of (almost complete) secularization of jews and christians in europe. Treat violence against people who offend religious sensibilities like you treat violence against jews or africans; punish those who do it and make all association or expressions of sympathy with the perpetrators unacceptable.

tptacek 16y ago
To your first sentence: yes. That being the entire point of terrorism.
ErrantX 16y ago
Damn right on the last bit. So how does reacting to bunk threats (threats, not actions) like this fit? It's fear; pure and simple. As to the first bit - your just constructing an idiotic scenario that doesn't exist. The attackers in Sweden are not deliberately trying to cause fear - thy are just trying to hurt a guy. However at some point in the background is someone who understands the impact of their actions on a wider scale. Many men exist within the echelons of terrorists. Many may not communicate together - but they don't really need to. The plan is brutally simple and uncomplicated; cause terror. I don't think it is possible to claim there isn't a climate of fear in the western world. We see it every week almost.
- fgf 16y ago
  Not trying to create fear? I think they knew that they were causing fear and that they got a kick out of it. I feel pretty certain you're white and not that tough.. Imagine yourself in a room with lots of black guys talking about ending AA or something like that and they attack you while people in the background sing kill whitey. Thats how the professor felt. This whole Islam vs Liberalism thing is not terribly important to me (I'm only proczastinating tonight) but had I considered speaking up about something that would piss muslims off that would have been the kind of thing I was afraid of. The dutch filmaker was killed by people like that. The swede needed police protection to show a youtube video with anti islamic art. In Oslo Ali is the most common name, a fifth of the population is muslim and there is a fusion of gang violence and muslim identity politics. Being hated by the muslim population would be very uncomfortable. It would be like being a high profile KKK member living in a black neighborhood.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    And, to extend your silly analogy to its logical conclusion, imagine that as a result of that experience we declared a national day of "making sure black people know they can't push us around anymore".
    - fgf 16y ago
      The reason it's called an analogy is that it's not exactly the same thing. Afro americans are not swedish muslims, they are both more violent than the majorities in their respective countries and thus scary to old white guys tough. But, yeah, demonstrations are great to show contempt for racial violence and other problems, heard of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are on about. The original point under discussion was very simple - I don't know where your headed with these scenarios, so I can't help. You sound a bit confused though.
    - fgf 16y ago
      It was rambling.. you said: "The attackers in Sweden are not deliberately trying to cause fear - thy are just trying to hurt a guy." What I was trying to say was: of course they were creating fear, they must have know that they were, wich is why I find the statement "they did not want to create fear" puzzling.
- tome 16y ago
  I really can't understand why you think Draw Mohammed Day is an expression of fear! It's uniting together to show confidence in ourselves and our liberal society. Censoring South Park was an expression of fear. This isn't.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    Yes it is. This is one of the reactions the extremists were hoping for. It stinks of fear :-( if nothing else the protest is confused - who is it directed at? Extremists? I fail to see how playing their game is clever.
    - tome 16y ago
      Are gay pride marches an expression of fear? Sure, they might be caused by gays initially feeling scared when they're alone and isolated. But joining together to march for something you believe in is an attempt to overcome this fear by uniting. That's the way I see Draw Mohammed Day. Safety in numbers. It's a response to fear, not an expression of fear. South Park was censored because the TV executives were scared. We want to show we don't have to be scared.
      - ErrantX 16y ago
        No of course not; because they unite behind posiive symbols. Symbols that a straight guy like myslefwould even stand behind - as you say, to show unity. This isn't really showing unity thought. The threats are non-credible but you are giving them credence. It does feel a lot like a fearful reaction. And very little to do with unity - because the chosen symbol alienates Muslims from the protest. Think of it this way; if someon blogged random death threats because of a cartoon of George w bush would weaigh and ignore it? Why the double standard here then? There is no credible threat, but some appear afraid enough to see it as one.
        tome 16y ago
        Theo van Gogh was murdered! A Danish cartoonist saved himself and his granddaughter from murder by hiding in a saferoom. IIRC a man was arrested this week for attempting to murder a Swedish cartoonist. These threats are highly credible. I'm sorry if many muslims are offended by this, but that's really to do with their own lack of self confidence. Nobody's lost an eye, limb or a life by the actions of Mohammed drawers. It's a picture, for goodness sake! Perhaps we disagree about what a positive symbol is. I happen to believe the artistic result of freedom of expression is a positive symbol.

by fgf 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

To your first sentence: yes. That being the entire point of terrorism.

ErrantX 16y ago

Damn right on the last bit. So how does reacting to bunk threats (threats, not actions) like this fit? It's fear; pure and simple. As to the first bit - your just constructing an idiotic scenario that doesn't exist. The attackers in Sweden are not deliberately trying to cause fear - thy are just trying to hurt a guy. However at some point in the background is someone who understands the impact of their actions on a wider scale. Many men exist within the echelons of terrorists. Many may not communicate together - but they don't really need to. The plan is brutally simple and uncomplicated; cause terror. I don't think it is possible to claim there isn't a climate of fear in the western world. We see it every week almost.

fgf 16y ago
Not trying to create fear? I think they knew that they were causing fear and that they got a kick out of it. I feel pretty certain you're white and not that tough.. Imagine yourself in a room with lots of black guys talking about ending AA or something like that and they attack you while people in the background sing kill whitey. Thats how the professor felt. This whole Islam vs Liberalism thing is not terribly important to me (I'm only proczastinating tonight) but had I considered speaking up about something that would piss muslims off that would have been the kind of thing I was afraid of. The dutch filmaker was killed by people like that. The swede needed police protection to show a youtube video with anti islamic art. In Oslo Ali is the most common name, a fifth of the population is muslim and there is a fusion of gang violence and muslim identity politics. Being hated by the muslim population would be very uncomfortable. It would be like being a high profile KKK member living in a black neighborhood.
- tptacek 16y ago
  And, to extend your silly analogy to its logical conclusion, imagine that as a result of that experience we declared a national day of "making sure black people know they can't push us around anymore".
  - fgf 16y ago
    The reason it's called an analogy is that it's not exactly the same thing. Afro americans are not swedish muslims, they are both more violent than the majorities in their respective countries and thus scary to old white guys tough. But, yeah, demonstrations are great to show contempt for racial violence and other problems, heard of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are on about. The original point under discussion was very simple - I don't know where your headed with these scenarios, so I can't help. You sound a bit confused though.
  - fgf 16y ago
    It was rambling.. you said: "The attackers in Sweden are not deliberately trying to cause fear - thy are just trying to hurt a guy." What I was trying to say was: of course they were creating fear, they must have know that they were, wich is why I find the statement "they did not want to create fear" puzzling.
tome 16y ago
I really can't understand why you think Draw Mohammed Day is an expression of fear! It's uniting together to show confidence in ourselves and our liberal society. Censoring South Park was an expression of fear. This isn't.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  Yes it is. This is one of the reactions the extremists were hoping for. It stinks of fear :-( if nothing else the protest is confused - who is it directed at? Extremists? I fail to see how playing their game is clever.
  - tome 16y ago
    Are gay pride marches an expression of fear? Sure, they might be caused by gays initially feeling scared when they're alone and isolated. But joining together to march for something you believe in is an attempt to overcome this fear by uniting. That's the way I see Draw Mohammed Day. Safety in numbers. It's a response to fear, not an expression of fear. South Park was censored because the TV executives were scared. We want to show we don't have to be scared.
    - ErrantX 16y ago
      No of course not; because they unite behind posiive symbols. Symbols that a straight guy like myslefwould even stand behind - as you say, to show unity. This isn't really showing unity thought. The threats are non-credible but you are giving them credence. It does feel a lot like a fearful reaction. And very little to do with unity - because the chosen symbol alienates Muslims from the protest. Think of it this way; if someon blogged random death threats because of a cartoon of George w bush would weaigh and ignore it? Why the double standard here then? There is no credible threat, but some appear afraid enough to see it as one.
      - tome 16y ago
        Theo van Gogh was murdered! A Danish cartoonist saved himself and his granddaughter from murder by hiding in a saferoom. IIRC a man was arrested this week for attempting to murder a Swedish cartoonist. These threats are highly credible. I'm sorry if many muslims are offended by this, but that's really to do with their own lack of self confidence. Nobody's lost an eye, limb or a life by the actions of Mohammed drawers. It's a picture, for goodness sake! Perhaps we disagree about what a positive symbol is. I happen to believe the artistic result of freedom of expression is a positive symbol.