6 ms·

Of course we don't - and it's rather disingenuous to say we do. We want to promote diversity where we can, and if you walked into our office today you'd be sur

by _s 10y ago

Of course we don't - and it's rather disingenuous to say we do. We want to promote diversity where we can, and if you walked into our office today you'd be surprised at the balance we've got. My statement was highlighting what the current state of tech is, and to make a more gender diverse working space i would have to sacrifice quality / skills / talent, which I will not do. But if I am not willing to sacrifice, how am I supposed to have a more diverse space?

Markoff 10y ago
why should you have more diverse space if there are no suitable diverse candidates? that's like expecting that photo models should be ugly women as well or sellers should be rude people to have diversity just for the sake of diversity
- _s 10y ago
  Because the first few generations of people will always lack the skill or confidence where they feel like a minority, ideally you want to create an environment where they all can flourish together; but not everyone se's things this way - and businesses more than anything expect immediate returns on their investments. As OP has stated, and I concur - diversity always encourages one to be more empathic, and generally leads to better teams. Side note - your definition / standards of beauty or customer service will be wildly different to mine, which will be wildly different to someone on the other end of the planet. You can have diverse teams, with varying strengths and weaknesses in individuals but still be a net positive.
richmarr 10y ago
> to make a more gender diverse working space i would have to sacrifice quality / skills / talent, which I will not do. The main point here I've already addressed in my reply to your parent comment, but there's an additional point worth making. There are now two (to my knowledge) studies that show diverse teams outperform heterogenious teams. The diverse teams feel less comfortable because your team members might fail the "would I enjoy working with you on a sunday" test, or the "do I want to go for a beer with you" test, but the additional perspectives provide meaningful insight Edit: The point being that assessing team members on the basis of individual skill misses an important point about the way teams behave as a whole
belorn 10y ago
You say you want to promote diversity, but do you? Do you have smoke and non-smoke offices, meat and non-meat, nude and non-nude? Do you promote equally people who drive to work, walk, and those that take a bike? Is there promotion in diversity of music taste, where each different taste is given proportional place in the office? Do you have proportional use of programming languages, promoting the diversity in preference? Have you ever used team building in order to make the group more homogeneous and working as a singular mind? Such effort goes directly against promoting diversity. Group cohesion is general opposite to diversity in behavior, goals, values, culture and opinions. The less disagreement and infighting there is, the less diversity you got.
- richmarr 10y ago
  > You say you want to promote diversity, but do you? Studies show gender & racially diverse teams perform better. Not aware of any studies into whether diversity of music taste relates to productivity.
  - teddyh 10y ago
    Do studies show causation and not simply correlation?
    - richmarr 10y ago
      A mixed bag to be honest, but some do. Example off the top of my head; a study into mixed-race juries (Sommers 2006) showed that not only did the predictive power of the group increase in the presence of black jurors, but the prodictive power of the white jurors increased without the black juror needing to actually intervene. Their presence caused a behaviour change.
      - teddyh 10y ago
        If that’s the case, we should not aim for equality, but instead aim for at least a token minority member presence in all groups, since this produces the intended effect.

by _s 10y ago

Markoff 10y ago

why should you have more diverse space if there are no suitable diverse candidates? that's like expecting that photo models should be ugly women as well or sellers should be rude people to have diversity just for the sake of diversity

_s 10y ago
Because the first few generations of people will always lack the skill or confidence where they feel like a minority, ideally you want to create an environment where they all can flourish together; but not everyone se's things this way - and businesses more than anything expect immediate returns on their investments. As OP has stated, and I concur - diversity always encourages one to be more empathic, and generally leads to better teams. Side note - your definition / standards of beauty or customer service will be wildly different to mine, which will be wildly different to someone on the other end of the planet. You can have diverse teams, with varying strengths and weaknesses in individuals but still be a net positive.

richmarr 10y ago

> to make a more gender diverse working space i would have to sacrifice quality / skills / talent, which I will not do. The main point here I've already addressed in my reply to your parent comment, but there's an additional point worth making. There are now two (to my knowledge) studies that show diverse teams outperform heterogenious teams. The diverse teams feel less comfortable because your team members might fail the "would I enjoy working with you on a sunday" test, or the "do I want to go for a beer with you" test, but the additional perspectives provide meaningful insight Edit: The point being that assessing team members on the basis of individual skill misses an important point about the way teams behave as a whole

belorn 10y ago

You say you want to promote diversity, but do you? Do you have smoke and non-smoke offices, meat and non-meat, nude and non-nude? Do you promote equally people who drive to work, walk, and those that take a bike? Is there promotion in diversity of music taste, where each different taste is given proportional place in the office? Do you have proportional use of programming languages, promoting the diversity in preference? Have you ever used team building in order to make the group more homogeneous and working as a singular mind? Such effort goes directly against promoting diversity. Group cohesion is general opposite to diversity in behavior, goals, values, culture and opinions. The less disagreement and infighting there is, the less diversity you got.

richmarr 10y ago
> You say you want to promote diversity, but do you? Studies show gender & racially diverse teams perform better. Not aware of any studies into whether diversity of music taste relates to productivity.
- teddyh 10y ago
  Do studies show causation and not simply correlation?
  - richmarr 10y ago
    A mixed bag to be honest, but some do. Example off the top of my head; a study into mixed-race juries (Sommers 2006) showed that not only did the predictive power of the group increase in the presence of black jurors, but the prodictive power of the white jurors increased without the black juror needing to actually intervene. Their presence caused a behaviour change.
    - teddyh 10y ago
      If that’s the case, we should not aim for equality, but instead aim for at least a token minority member presence in all groups, since this produces the intended effect.