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He lists his reasons in the following order: AT&T service Yes, AT&T service has been pretty shitty. It's hard to make this a direct knock against the iPhone,

by brk 16y ago

He lists his reasons in the following order: AT&T service Yes, AT&T service has been pretty shitty. It's hard to make this a direct knock against the iPhone, even recognizing the exclusive deal. I believe that Apple is pushing AT&T to fix this issue in one way or another. Though it has been taking way too long. Still, I don't consider this a pure iPhone issue. major limitations in some of the applications such as email Really? Have you truly tried some of the Android apps, Brad? The default email client on the Moto Droid I had for a month didn't even support signatures. Many of the other apps I downloaded and tried were half-baked at best. Some were targeted towards specific handsets, others just didn't perform as advertised. There have been very very few iPhone apps that I've downloaded that didn't do what they advertised (note: I also read app reviews first. If the majority of the reviews are 1 or 2 stars I skip it.). My personal experience was that Android apps were fairly poor as a whole, though there were some really good apps too. restriction of Flash Until I see true working version of mobile Flash, I don't blame Apple for not including it. I've never felt slighted by my iPhone not supporting Flash. lack of tethering This is, again, a carrier issue. So, you're not really comparing handsets, you're comparing carrier restrictions. Again, I get the exclusivity part, but this isn't really an iPhone limitation. lack of statefulness, lack of multi-processing Yeah, these bug me at times also. Though not significantly, and my Droid ATE the battery if I tried to multitask an app that did a lot of background network activity. So again, I'm not sure this is true iPhone issue as much as an overall technology issue. and the unbearable shittiness of iTunes for Windows What about the unbearable shittiness of Windows in general? Sorry, but I put less merit into someone who switches products after getting one as schwag. I thought my Droid sucked and wasn't worth what I paid for it. If it had been free, I may have been more tolerant of it and wooed by the novelty factor.

cpr 16y ago
iPhone OS 4.0 addresses some of the email limitations (unified inbox), 3.x had tethering (apparently, it's coming to AT&T with 4.0), 4.0 has a form of battery-saving multitasking, etc. It's a horse race and there's going to be endless one-upsmanship back and forth. What Froyo has that's great is over-the-air download & built-in intents-over-the-air (e.g., send a URL or a map to your phone, something I've longed for on the iPhone since forever; I guess someone should make an app for that plus a browser extension). It'll be interesting to see if Apple can shift quickly enough in the two weeks before WWDC to address some of the remaining advantages that Android has over iPhone OS. I suspect not. They're known for establishing a course and pretty much following it inexorably.
- perpetuity 16y ago
  I can d/l over the air with my iPhone. I can send a map link around as well. I guess you are talking about something else altogether. All hail Google? In a year everyone will remember what a nightmare Google really is.
- drivebyacct 16y ago
  iPhone OS will never have the ability to do the things like Android like push-intents until Apple admits that what iPhone OS 4 brings is not even remotely close to multitasking and that their model wouldn't allow for push intents. They claim battery and stability but my phone is stable now with multitasking and my battery lasts a full day. An iPhone application has no way of having a long living listener for something that would resemble a push intent. The only thing you can do is register small bits of code as video/voip/audio services that can run in the background. Anything more advanced than that is reserved for Android or true multitasking OSes.
  - easp 16y ago
    Oh horseshit. Apple's model could easily be extended to allow apps to register code that is executed when something is pushed to the phone.
  - easp 16y ago
    The more I think about this, the sillier your assertion seems that having your application running in the background is a necessity for functionality like push-intents. Its like you are saying that without all your apps running code running all the time, Windows or the Mac won't know what app to use when you double click on a file. And if you want an example of how to offer a range of network services without having to keep all of them running all the time, try reading about inetd. Its a pretty new idea, but I'm sure you can find something about it.
lallysingh 16y ago
Two bits: 1) The pragmatics of the platform means that iPhone == AT&T. You have to get both, so it's fair to box them together. 2) Mobile flash runs great on my Nokia N900. Even streaming full-screen video.
- megablast 16y ago
  Is there a way to switch it off? I do not look forward to going back to loads of ads on a page, especially if they are flash.
  - jarek 16y ago
    Yes, of course. Maemo is a platform built on belief in giving users a choice.
    - megablast 16y ago
      Ok, can you switch it off easily in the software, or do you need to recompile. Can you switch it on on a flash app basis, so a screen might have an ad and a video, then you can play the video only? If so, that is great. I still don't miss Flash on my iPhone, and definately want to still keep on missing it.
      - jarek 16y ago
        On my N810, I can switch it off in the default browser as a what seems to be per-process setting. It takes three touches to toggle it from the main browsing screen. I don't know what it is on the N900, but I really doubt they'd downgrade it to a compile option. Other browsers available on the platform might have different functionalities — in particular, the alpha/beta of Opera Mobile has click-to-Flash—like functionality.
- brk 16y ago
  How is the battery life with streaming video? I do not own an N900, but I everything I have seen and heard from people who did buy them is that the battery life is shit.
zmmmmm 16y ago
> What about the unbearable shittiness of Windows in general? No - iTunes is in a separate class of shittiness altogether.
oldgregg 16y ago
I don't even know where to begin. Apple is the one that made the decision to stay with ATT so it's their own damn fault. As Apple loves to say, it's the end user experience that matters. Apple has stuck by ATT for two reasons: Control and Money. At a severe cost to users. You think his opinion has less merit because he got it for free? That is just laughable. Brad Feld has more credibility and money than you or I will probably have in our entire lifetime. Completely irrelevant.
- tzs 16y ago
  Apple has stuck with AT&T because they signed a long term contract to give AT&T exclusivity. They had to do that in order to get the phone out. They had approached the other carriers, and no one else was interested in carrying the phone unless the carrier got to control the design of the software. If Apple had not been willing to give exclusivity, its likely AT&T too would have passed on the iPhone. Without iPhone, there would not be Android. Even if Google had still developed it, they would have had the same problem Apple had--phone companies not willing to let Google be in charge of the software. It's only because Verizon and Sprint and the rest desperately needed something to compete with iPhone that they were willing to allow Android.
  - shareme 16y ago
    without iphone there would be no androidd? August 2005 is when apple bought the android OS form android Inc..way before iphone OS was even coded.
    - easp 16y ago
      I think you mean Google bought android. And really, you have no idea when the iPhoneOS was even coded, but given that it is based on OSX coding started well before 2005. But I think the real question is what Android would have been without the iPhone, because even after the iPhone shipped, Android was looking rather a lot like a conventional smartphone OS.
- halostatue 16y ago
  You may not know where to begin with your comments about the Apple and AT&T relationship, but that would mostly be because you Don't Get It. It's not just about control and money; these matter, but less than you think. By choosing AT&T, Apple chose GSM, which gave the iPhone compatibility with most of the world. They looked at CDMA and realized that it was a dead-end technology; they looked at the expense of having to maintain two different radio chipsets; they looked at a lot of things and made the decision that, at least up until now, they didn't want to deal with it. Apple has relationships with three GSM carriers in Canada (Rogers/Fido, Bell, and Telus) and many more elsewhere in the world. If T-Mobile had used the more common GSM frequencies, Apple might not have gone with an exclusive deal with AT&T. Maybe. On the other hand, my immediate reaction on seeing the story title was "who is Brad Feld and why should I care that he's switching?" Seriously. Looking at his CrunchBase profile, I can see that he does VC stuff now and built a fairly large consulting company, but I am still not sure that I should care about his opinions about consumer electronics. So I do think that his opinion has less merit because he got this particular device for free. (Money isn't credibility. To me, he's just some random guy with a platform. A blogger with no relevance to anything that I do.) IMO, a consumer who has loyalty to a particular device or technology is a fool. If someone really comes up with something that I can unequivocally say is better than my iPhone, I will switch. So far, Android is "close but no cigar".
jarek 16y ago
Is this really the sort of argument Apple would like to be having? "Your cellular service sucks." "Yeah, but that's because we're locked in to a sucky provider." "I can't tether through my phone." "Yeah, but that's because we're locked in to a sucky provider." "Your desktop software sucks." "Yeah, but we think this other software sucks more." I thought Apple was the one who figured all that matters in the end is user experience.
InclinedPlane 16y ago
"Yes, AT&T service has been pretty shitty. It's hard to make this a direct knock against the iPhone..." Excuse the crassness but bull shit. Apple chose AT&T. Apple committed to AT&T. AT&T today is as much a part of the iPhone as the display, the OS, the camera, anything. Indeed, more so, since Apple signed a 5 year, exclusive contract with AT&T and the hardware has changed and will change many times in that period. If Apple signed an exclusive contract with some LCD manufacturer and was forced to deal with sub-quality displays nobody would cut them any slack. Apple made a choice in the design and implementation of the iPhone by choosing AT&T as an exclusive provider, they have to live with that choice. This is an absolutely valid criticism of the iPhone.

by brk 16y ago

cpr 16y ago

iPhone OS 4.0 addresses some of the email limitations (unified inbox), 3.x had tethering (apparently, it's coming to AT&T with 4.0), 4.0 has a form of battery-saving multitasking, etc. It's a horse race and there's going to be endless one-upsmanship back and forth. What Froyo has that's great is over-the-air download & built-in intents-over-the-air (e.g., send a URL or a map to your phone, something I've longed for on the iPhone since forever; I guess someone should make an app for that plus a browser extension). It'll be interesting to see if Apple can shift quickly enough in the two weeks before WWDC to address some of the remaining advantages that Android has over iPhone OS. I suspect not. They're known for establishing a course and pretty much following it inexorably.

perpetuity 16y ago
I can d/l over the air with my iPhone. I can send a map link around as well. I guess you are talking about something else altogether. All hail Google? In a year everyone will remember what a nightmare Google really is.
drivebyacct 16y ago
iPhone OS will never have the ability to do the things like Android like push-intents until Apple admits that what iPhone OS 4 brings is not even remotely close to multitasking and that their model wouldn't allow for push intents. They claim battery and stability but my phone is stable now with multitasking and my battery lasts a full day. An iPhone application has no way of having a long living listener for something that would resemble a push intent. The only thing you can do is register small bits of code as video/voip/audio services that can run in the background. Anything more advanced than that is reserved for Android or true multitasking OSes.
- easp 16y ago
  Oh horseshit. Apple's model could easily be extended to allow apps to register code that is executed when something is pushed to the phone.
- easp 16y ago
  The more I think about this, the sillier your assertion seems that having your application running in the background is a necessity for functionality like push-intents. Its like you are saying that without all your apps running code running all the time, Windows or the Mac won't know what app to use when you double click on a file. And if you want an example of how to offer a range of network services without having to keep all of them running all the time, try reading about inetd. Its a pretty new idea, but I'm sure you can find something about it.

lallysingh 16y ago

Two bits: 1) The pragmatics of the platform means that iPhone == AT&T. You have to get both, so it's fair to box them together. 2) Mobile flash runs great on my Nokia N900. Even streaming full-screen video.

megablast 16y ago
Is there a way to switch it off? I do not look forward to going back to loads of ads on a page, especially if they are flash.
- jarek 16y ago
  Yes, of course. Maemo is a platform built on belief in giving users a choice.
  - megablast 16y ago
    Ok, can you switch it off easily in the software, or do you need to recompile. Can you switch it on on a flash app basis, so a screen might have an ad and a video, then you can play the video only? If so, that is great. I still don't miss Flash on my iPhone, and definately want to still keep on missing it.
    - jarek 16y ago
      On my N810, I can switch it off in the default browser as a what seems to be per-process setting. It takes three touches to toggle it from the main browsing screen. I don't know what it is on the N900, but I really doubt they'd downgrade it to a compile option. Other browsers available on the platform might have different functionalities — in particular, the alpha/beta of Opera Mobile has click-to-Flash—like functionality.
brk 16y ago
How is the battery life with streaming video? I do not own an N900, but I everything I have seen and heard from people who did buy them is that the battery life is shit.

zmmmmm 16y ago

> What about the unbearable shittiness of Windows in general? No - iTunes is in a separate class of shittiness altogether.

oldgregg 16y ago

I don't even know where to begin. Apple is the one that made the decision to stay with ATT so it's their own damn fault. As Apple loves to say, it's the end user experience that matters. Apple has stuck by ATT for two reasons: Control and Money. At a severe cost to users. You think his opinion has less merit because he got it for free? That is just laughable. Brad Feld has more credibility and money than you or I will probably have in our entire lifetime. Completely irrelevant.

tzs 16y ago
Apple has stuck with AT&T because they signed a long term contract to give AT&T exclusivity. They had to do that in order to get the phone out. They had approached the other carriers, and no one else was interested in carrying the phone unless the carrier got to control the design of the software. If Apple had not been willing to give exclusivity, its likely AT&T too would have passed on the iPhone. Without iPhone, there would not be Android. Even if Google had still developed it, they would have had the same problem Apple had--phone companies not willing to let Google be in charge of the software. It's only because Verizon and Sprint and the rest desperately needed something to compete with iPhone that they were willing to allow Android.
- shareme 16y ago
  without iphone there would be no androidd? August 2005 is when apple bought the android OS form android Inc..way before iphone OS was even coded.
  - easp 16y ago
    I think you mean Google bought android. And really, you have no idea when the iPhoneOS was even coded, but given that it is based on OSX coding started well before 2005. But I think the real question is what Android would have been without the iPhone, because even after the iPhone shipped, Android was looking rather a lot like a conventional smartphone OS.
halostatue 16y ago
You may not know where to begin with your comments about the Apple and AT&T relationship, but that would mostly be because you Don't Get It. It's not just about control and money; these matter, but less than you think. By choosing AT&T, Apple chose GSM, which gave the iPhone compatibility with most of the world. They looked at CDMA and realized that it was a dead-end technology; they looked at the expense of having to maintain two different radio chipsets; they looked at a lot of things and made the decision that, at least up until now, they didn't want to deal with it. Apple has relationships with three GSM carriers in Canada (Rogers/Fido, Bell, and Telus) and many more elsewhere in the world. If T-Mobile had used the more common GSM frequencies, Apple might not have gone with an exclusive deal with AT&T. Maybe. On the other hand, my immediate reaction on seeing the story title was "who is Brad Feld and why should I care that he's switching?" Seriously. Looking at his CrunchBase profile, I can see that he does VC stuff now and built a fairly large consulting company, but I am still not sure that I should care about his opinions about consumer electronics. So I do think that his opinion has less merit because he got this particular device for free. (Money isn't credibility. To me, he's just some random guy with a platform. A blogger with no relevance to anything that I do.) IMO, a consumer who has loyalty to a particular device or technology is a fool. If someone really comes up with something that I can unequivocally say is better than my iPhone, I will switch. So far, Android is "close but no cigar".

jarek 16y ago

Is this really the sort of argument Apple would like to be having? "Your cellular service sucks." "Yeah, but that's because we're locked in to a sucky provider." "I can't tether through my phone." "Yeah, but that's because we're locked in to a sucky provider." "Your desktop software sucks." "Yeah, but we think this other software sucks more." I thought Apple was the one who figured all that matters in the end is user experience.

InclinedPlane 16y ago

"Yes, AT&T service has been pretty shitty. It's hard to make this a direct knock against the iPhone..." Excuse the crassness but bull shit. Apple chose AT&T. Apple committed to AT&T. AT&T today is as much a part of the iPhone as the display, the OS, the camera, anything. Indeed, more so, since Apple signed a 5 year, exclusive contract with AT&T and the hardware has changed and will change many times in that period. If Apple signed an exclusive contract with some LCD manufacturer and was forced to deal with sub-quality displays nobody would cut them any slack. Apple made a choice in the design and implementation of the iPhone by choosing AT&T as an exclusive provider, they have to live with that choice. This is an absolutely valid criticism of the iPhone.