3 ms·

Microsoft has managed to keep VB and C# alive and well supported even though its major codebases are in C++. I don't think it's as big of a problem as the auth

by wmil 10y ago

Microsoft has managed to keep VB and C# alive and well supported even though its major codebases are in C++. I don't think it's as big of a problem as the author seem to think it is.

pjmlp 10y ago
Actually even though C++ has first class support on UWP, I have noticed that the language focus at Microsoft developer presentations is showing it more for lower layers of the OS and games, with C# and VB being targeted for apps development, with F# getting the data science part.
- simonh 10y ago
  That's exactly the point. All the talk from Microsoft about dev platforms has been about C# and .NET for over a decade now, but their flagship apps are actually still developed in C++.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    There is a lot of C# in Visual Studio, SQL Server Management Studio, SQL Server Managed Stored Procedures, IIS Handlers, Office AddIns, Share Point, Dynamics, ... Also don't forget that before the restructuring done by Satya, the Windows Dev unit was responsible for C++ and DevTools unit for .NET, and they didn't always get along, specially in the Longhorn days. Also the Office team used to have their own internal fork of Visual C++, not sure how it looks like nowadays. So don't get trapped seeing technology decisions for what was sometimes actually related to internal politics.
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- nickpeterson 10y ago
  F# isn't really aimed at data science, thats a common misconception ( I believe MS has ceased describing it that way). It's basically just a general purpose, functionally oriented language.
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  - pjmlp 10y ago
    When they finally support it the same way as VB and C#, including the GUI tools, UWP, and some of the MSDN documentation about .NET, and above all when the F# community stops doing presentations about type providers as the single killer feature, then it will be a general purpose, functionally oriented language. Currently I cannot use F# on UWP until .NET Core 2.0 gets released, cannot use the same workflows with Blend and Visual Studio as I do for C#, and while type providers are cool, I have zero uses for them.
    - nickpeterson 10y ago
      Yeah, I have no arguments here. If you're goal is a friction-less integration with Microsoft tooling and projects, F# is not the way to go (definitely C#). F# practitioners would do better to position themselves as just a language in it's own right, not necessarily an 'alternative to C#'. Sort of like Elixir compared to Erlang.
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by wmil 10y ago

Microsoft has managed to keep VB and C# alive and well supported even though its major codebases are in C++. I don't think it's as big of a problem as the author seem to think it is.

pjmlp 10y ago

Actually even though C++ has first class support on UWP, I have noticed that the language focus at Microsoft developer presentations is showing it more for lower layers of the OS and games, with C# and VB being targeted for apps development, with F# getting the data science part.

simonh 10y ago
That's exactly the point. All the talk from Microsoft about dev platforms has been about C# and .NET for over a decade now, but their flagship apps are actually still developed in C++.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  There is a lot of C# in Visual Studio, SQL Server Management Studio, SQL Server Managed Stored Procedures, IIS Handlers, Office AddIns, Share Point, Dynamics, ... Also don't forget that before the restructuring done by Satya, the Windows Dev unit was responsible for C++ and DevTools unit for .NET, and they didn't always get along, specially in the Longhorn days. Also the Office team used to have their own internal fork of Visual C++, not sure how it looks like nowadays. So don't get trapped seeing technology decisions for what was sometimes actually related to internal politics.
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nickpeterson 10y ago
F# isn't really aimed at data science, thats a common misconception ( I believe MS has ceased describing it that way). It's basically just a general purpose, functionally oriented language.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- pjmlp 10y ago
  When they finally support it the same way as VB and C#, including the GUI tools, UWP, and some of the MSDN documentation about .NET, and above all when the F# community stops doing presentations about type providers as the single killer feature, then it will be a general purpose, functionally oriented language. Currently I cannot use F# on UWP until .NET Core 2.0 gets released, cannot use the same workflows with Blend and Visual Studio as I do for C#, and while type providers are cool, I have zero uses for them.
  - nickpeterson 10y ago
    Yeah, I have no arguments here. If you're goal is a friction-less integration with Microsoft tooling and projects, F# is not the way to go (definitely C#). F# practitioners would do better to position themselves as just a language in it's own right, not necessarily an 'alternative to C#'. Sort of like Elixir compared to Erlang.

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