5 ms·

They will if we don't treat them like delicate children. That's abject nonsense. Intentionally offending people doesn't make them grow up. It makes them feel a

They will if we don't treat them like delicate children. That's abject nonsense. Intentionally offending people doesn't make them grow up. It makes them feel aggrieved.

tome 16y ago
You're really missing the point. This isn't about intentionally offending people. (I acknowledge that many idiots on the Facebook page were intentionally offending people) But what this is really about is intentionally defending our freedom of speech whilst at the same time accepting the necessary, but unintentional, side effect of offending people. But frankly, who cares? These people can choose whether or not to be offended by this. If they think we're stupid so be it, they don't have to engage with us.
- tptacek 16y ago
  I don't understand why publishing pictures of Mohammad stops being offensive to Muslims when it becomes part of a political demonstration. What's childish is the notion that there's no cost to offending people, or that the cost must not matter because there's a principle attached to it. You have free speech whether or not you choose to use it to offend Muslims. Muslims will tolerate your free speech, because that's the social contract, and we enforce the social contract with the enormous, virtually unstoppable resources of Western Civilization. We knew that before this demonstration, we'll know it afterwards. The only thing that's going to change is that many tens of thousands of people will be pointlessly alienated so that people like you can feel good about themselves.
  - tome 16y ago
    I didn't say it wasn't offensive. I said it wasn't intentionally offensive. NB that is different from knowing it would cause offence. Of course we did, but it was an unavoidable side effect of our defence of free speech. The only thing that's going to change is that many tens of thousands of people will be pointlessly alienated I disagree with that. I hope that -- and the reason I support this movement is that -- we will all feel stronger as a society which values freedom of expression. It certainly was not about feeling good about myself. I feel bad about offending anyone, but I think demonstrating our belief in free speech is more important.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      I see zero practical difference between knowingly causing offense and intentionally causing offense. Either way: the vast, overwhelming majority of the people you're offending agree with and uphold our social contract. But at least you feel better now.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    What's childish is the notion that there's no cost to offending people, or that the cost must not matter because there's a principle attached to it. Thanks, you've put exactly into words the idea I've been struggling to sketch out for the last few days.
  - all_elements 16y ago
    Very well put

They will if we don't treat them like delicate children. That's abject nonsense. Intentionally offending people doesn't make them grow up. It makes them feel aggrieved.

tome 16y ago

You're really missing the point. This isn't about intentionally offending people. (I acknowledge that many idiots on the Facebook page were intentionally offending people) But what this is really about is intentionally defending our freedom of speech whilst at the same time accepting the necessary, but unintentional, side effect of offending people. But frankly, who cares? These people can choose whether or not to be offended by this. If they think we're stupid so be it, they don't have to engage with us.

tptacek 16y ago
I don't understand why publishing pictures of Mohammad stops being offensive to Muslims when it becomes part of a political demonstration. What's childish is the notion that there's no cost to offending people, or that the cost must not matter because there's a principle attached to it. You have free speech whether or not you choose to use it to offend Muslims. Muslims will tolerate your free speech, because that's the social contract, and we enforce the social contract with the enormous, virtually unstoppable resources of Western Civilization. We knew that before this demonstration, we'll know it afterwards. The only thing that's going to change is that many tens of thousands of people will be pointlessly alienated so that people like you can feel good about themselves.
- tome 16y ago
  I didn't say it wasn't offensive. I said it wasn't intentionally offensive. NB that is different from knowing it would cause offence. Of course we did, but it was an unavoidable side effect of our defence of free speech. The only thing that's going to change is that many tens of thousands of people will be pointlessly alienated I disagree with that. I hope that -- and the reason I support this movement is that -- we will all feel stronger as a society which values freedom of expression. It certainly was not about feeling good about myself. I feel bad about offending anyone, but I think demonstrating our belief in free speech is more important.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    I see zero practical difference between knowingly causing offense and intentionally causing offense. Either way: the vast, overwhelming majority of the people you're offending agree with and uphold our social contract. But at least you feel better now.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  What's childish is the notion that there's no cost to offending people, or that the cost must not matter because there's a principle attached to it. Thanks, you've put exactly into words the idea I've been struggling to sketch out for the last few days.
- all_elements 16y ago
  Very well put