6 ms·

ESR seems to have a long track record of being involved in these types of events. There are obviously a number of possible conclusions to draw: - ESR is so p

by itp 10y ago

ESR seems to have a long track record of being involved in these types of events. There are obviously a number of possible conclusions to draw: - ESR is so productive and involved in so many things that this is actually a normal drama ratio - ESR only involves himself in critical issues with high potential for drama - ESR brings the drama I can't rule out either of the first two, but years of data points lead me to believe it's the third.

linuxkerneldev 10y ago
I agree that it is very likely to be the third. Just have a read of some of ESR's articles. Eg: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=129 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=129 " American blacks average a standard deviation lower in IQ than American whites at about 85. And it gets worse: the average IQ of African blacks is lower still, not far above what is considered the threshold of mental retardation in the U.S. And yes, it’s genetic; g seems to be about 85% heritable, and recent studies of effects like regression towards the mean suggest strongly that most of the heritability is DNA rather than nurturance effects. " ESR's famous melodramatic-response to having his CML2 ("Eric's configuration markup language for kernel building") patch rejected by Linus is also quite telling about his self-perception and his perception of other people and his interaction with anyone who would have an opposing viewpoint to his.
- IgorPartola 10y ago
  Eek. That post contains quite a lot of claims that are not backed by a single reference to a primary source.
- thehardsphere 10y ago
  How does the quote show that he "brings the drama"? I mean, that's on his own blog. It's not like he's exporting that. It's not like he's going up to black people and saying "you're almost retarded." I think the CML incident and the time where he yelled at some Debian developer about "our tribe" are better examples, because at least there he's going into other people's spaces and actually confronting them.
  - mrchicity 10y ago
    Because what good can come from discussing that topic? The only reasons to broach it are to a.) troll and/or b.) agitate for some horrific policy proposals. He's not an academic researcher. Don't you think it's odd for some old white guy to get worked up over minority test scores? Why write about this rather than basically anything else? Either he's a troll or profoundly unaware about how bringing this line of argument up may make people feel threatened. There are a lot of things that simply don't need to be discussed. It's like graphically describing your partner's episiotomy over dinner. Some things just inspire a visceral reaction.
    - thehardsphere 10y ago
      It's odd, sure, but it's his blog. People blog about whatever they're interested in. He could have all kinds of reasons for being interested in that which aren't trolling or policy. Here's an unflattering guess why he might be interested in this: he has cerebal palsy. Despite that, he still is a fairly smart (even if crazy and/or racist) guy. He might be extremely interested in differences in human intelligence for that reason. To figure out why he still has above average intelligence while most other people with his birth defect don't. That could explain a lot of his crazy beliefs and his narcissistic "I'm a super unix hacker" routine. Why does he have to be an "academic researcher" to have opinions about race that he wants to talk about on his blog? Or for that matter, any topic? Do you have an anthropology degree to assert your opinion that his blog may make people feel threatened, or are you just another guy on the internet with an opinion?
    - Oxitendwe 10y ago
      >Why write about this rather than basically anything else? Why not? If it's true, and you offered absolutely no refutation to his claim whatsoever, why shouldn't we discuss facts? Do they stop being true if we stop talking about them? Do their ramifications stop existing if we just refuse to accept them?
  - jcoffland 10y ago
    Or his public arguments with Larry Wall.
- tptacek 10y ago
  ESR's politics are repugnant, but there's more than enough evidence of job-related narcissism to make an argument about his personality (if that's needed) without having to drag the thread through his profuse bigotry. That's what Twitter's for. I'm not sure how much more needs to be said beyond the fact that ESR has repeatedly claimed, including recently, that the Internet might fail if people don't continue to donate to his Patreon --- a Patreon which, he has previously stated, stands as direct evidence of his fame as a programmer, a fame rivaling that of Donald Knuth or Linus Torvalds.
phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
I was under the impression that he wrote fetchmail, but according to wikipedia he took over a previous package and renamed it fetchmail. So AFAIK, he's notable because he said so. Yes, I know I'm nobody but that doesn't mean I can't call bullshit when I smell it.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  There is little doubt that ESR is notable. He is best known as the writer of essays about Open-Source such as The Cathedral and the Bazaar and The Magic Cauldron as well as others on many topics including gun rights. He suffers from cerebral palsy but has not let that hold him back. He is also known for being contentious. Arguably, his philosophical contributions are more valuable than his code contributions.
  - mcguire 10y ago
    He is also the incarnation of the god Pan [1] and a sexual tyrannosaurus (and relationship advice columnist)[2]. As get as I remember, his philosophical contributions primarily involve being in the right place at the right time, when people were searching for the reason that Linux was taking over the world, and having something to do with convincing Netscape to go open source. [1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html [2] http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/sextips/ http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/sextips/
  - thehardsphere 10y ago
    I don't know why this is being downvoted. Whether you like ESR or not, he is notable for all of these things. Plus founding the Open Source Initiative. And he maintains GPSD. One can debate whether these things are all valuable, and how any value they may have may fit into how to judge him as a person along with his flaws, but they are notable.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >Plus founding the Open Source Initiative. Which is notable itself (OSI) because?

by itp 10y ago

linuxkerneldev 10y ago

I agree that it is very likely to be the third. Just have a read of some of ESR's articles. Eg: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=129 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=129 " American blacks average a standard deviation lower in IQ than American whites at about 85. And it gets worse: the average IQ of African blacks is lower still, not far above what is considered the threshold of mental retardation in the U.S. And yes, it’s genetic; g seems to be about 85% heritable, and recent studies of effects like regression towards the mean suggest strongly that most of the heritability is DNA rather than nurturance effects. " ESR's famous melodramatic-response to having his CML2 ("Eric's configuration markup language for kernel building") patch rejected by Linus is also quite telling about his self-perception and his perception of other people and his interaction with anyone who would have an opposing viewpoint to his.

IgorPartola 10y ago
Eek. That post contains quite a lot of claims that are not backed by a single reference to a primary source.
thehardsphere 10y ago
How does the quote show that he "brings the drama"? I mean, that's on his own blog. It's not like he's exporting that. It's not like he's going up to black people and saying "you're almost retarded." I think the CML incident and the time where he yelled at some Debian developer about "our tribe" are better examples, because at least there he's going into other people's spaces and actually confronting them.
- mrchicity 10y ago
  Because what good can come from discussing that topic? The only reasons to broach it are to a.) troll and/or b.) agitate for some horrific policy proposals. He's not an academic researcher. Don't you think it's odd for some old white guy to get worked up over minority test scores? Why write about this rather than basically anything else? Either he's a troll or profoundly unaware about how bringing this line of argument up may make people feel threatened. There are a lot of things that simply don't need to be discussed. It's like graphically describing your partner's episiotomy over dinner. Some things just inspire a visceral reaction.
  - thehardsphere 10y ago
    It's odd, sure, but it's his blog. People blog about whatever they're interested in. He could have all kinds of reasons for being interested in that which aren't trolling or policy. Here's an unflattering guess why he might be interested in this: he has cerebal palsy. Despite that, he still is a fairly smart (even if crazy and/or racist) guy. He might be extremely interested in differences in human intelligence for that reason. To figure out why he still has above average intelligence while most other people with his birth defect don't. That could explain a lot of his crazy beliefs and his narcissistic "I'm a super unix hacker" routine. Why does he have to be an "academic researcher" to have opinions about race that he wants to talk about on his blog? Or for that matter, any topic? Do you have an anthropology degree to assert your opinion that his blog may make people feel threatened, or are you just another guy on the internet with an opinion?
  - Oxitendwe 10y ago
    >Why write about this rather than basically anything else? Why not? If it's true, and you offered absolutely no refutation to his claim whatsoever, why shouldn't we discuss facts? Do they stop being true if we stop talking about them? Do their ramifications stop existing if we just refuse to accept them?
- jcoffland 10y ago
  Or his public arguments with Larry Wall.
tptacek 10y ago
ESR's politics are repugnant, but there's more than enough evidence of job-related narcissism to make an argument about his personality (if that's needed) without having to drag the thread through his profuse bigotry. That's what Twitter's for. I'm not sure how much more needs to be said beyond the fact that ESR has repeatedly claimed, including recently, that the Internet might fail if people don't continue to donate to his Patreon --- a Patreon which, he has previously stated, stands as direct evidence of his fame as a programmer, a fame rivaling that of Donald Knuth or Linus Torvalds.

phjesusthatguy3 10y ago

I was under the impression that he wrote fetchmail, but according to wikipedia he took over a previous package and renamed it fetchmail. So AFAIK, he's notable because he said so. Yes, I know I'm nobody but that doesn't mean I can't call bullshit when I smell it.

jcoffland 10y ago
There is little doubt that ESR is notable. He is best known as the writer of essays about Open-Source such as The Cathedral and the Bazaar and The Magic Cauldron as well as others on many topics including gun rights. He suffers from cerebral palsy but has not let that hold him back. He is also known for being contentious. Arguably, his philosophical contributions are more valuable than his code contributions.
- mcguire 10y ago
  He is also the incarnation of the god Pan [1] and a sexual tyrannosaurus (and relationship advice columnist)[2]. As get as I remember, his philosophical contributions primarily involve being in the right place at the right time, when people were searching for the reason that Linux was taking over the world, and having something to do with convincing Netscape to go open source. [1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html [2] http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/sextips/ http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/sextips/
- thehardsphere 10y ago
  I don't know why this is being downvoted. Whether you like ESR or not, he is notable for all of these things. Plus founding the Open Source Initiative. And he maintains GPSD. One can debate whether these things are all valuable, and how any value they may have may fit into how to judge him as a person along with his flaws, but they are notable.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Plus founding the Open Source Initiative. Which is notable itself (OSI) because?