5 ms·

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that som

by J-dawg 10y ago

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives? One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage every time.

all_usernames 10y ago
If you've spent your whole life feeling victimized by society then you do whatever little things you can to give a big middle finger back. If you're a Black single mom that has to work two jobs to get by, maybe it's easy for you to justify throwing your McDonald's wrappers on the parking lot ground.
- fao_ 10y ago
  The race of the person was not mentioned, it was interesting that you assumed that they were black -- although I do not disagree with your point.
  - louhike 10y ago
    It was an example of a kind of person being victimized by society.
- J-dawg 10y ago
  This is an interesting way of looking at it. I wonder if this really is the psychology of people who do stuff like this. If this is the case, it would be interesting to find out whether there is some correlation between wealth inequality and rates of littering.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 10y ago
    A counter point would be all the smoking middle class people I see everyday that throw their butts on the ground.
- chrisbennet 10y ago
  I have a different theory: I call it the "raised by wolves theory". If a person doesn't have the benefit of good parenting/good examples, they grow up to be less socialized. The single mom in your example may have had little parenting because her mom was working 3 jobs perhaps. Anyone else remember the "don't litter" public service announcement on TV with a crying Indian?
- mercer 10y ago
  I think a much simpler explanation is that most people don't bother justifying much of their behavior in the first place.
mercer 10y ago
I don't think you can neatly separate people by their behavior in this manner, in general, but also in particular when it comes to 'automatic', frequent behavior like disposing of trash. People are irrational. Most smokers I know will carefully separate their trash and walk hundreds of meters to put everything in the right bin... and yet dispose of their cigarettes all over the place. To my shame I have to admit I was one of those people. Somehow the inconsistency just didn't cross my mind. So many other thoughts took precedence. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, mind. I do understand the anger and frustration, but I think it's both fairer and more productive to assume that people are not doing these things to intentionally cause harm, and that they might well be upstanding citizens in other areas of life.
- tucaz 10y ago
  I smoke and I was pretty much the person you described until a couple years ago when I saw a friend going out of his way to dispose of the cigarette butts in a trash can. Since them I do whatever I have to do, including storing it inside my cigarette pack, to not throw any butts on the floor.
  - mercer 10y ago
    Same here! Monkey see, monkey do.
  - surge 10y ago
    As a non-smoker, it's my number one gripe with smokers and why I used to consider them scum with little remorse when places started restricting where they smoke, this I judge smokers for more than anything else. So many butts strewn about every where, outside side exits, in the grass by benches, do they think fiberglass is biodegradable or something? I can be in a nice place, a outdoor setting that is other wise pristine, but you'll see a mound of cigerette butt's. It'll often be next to an ash tray or cigarette disposal too. I don't fathom how you don't/didn't notice, it's like throwing bubblegum wrappers on the ground, yeah its small, but when you smoke packs of cigarettes in the same spot it adds up, not to mention more of a hassle to clean up by others like picking up confetti off the ground. I'm glad you realized it, but I can't imagine how people are utterly clueless about it being a problem (I just assumed all smokers were a-holes because they didn't care).
pharrington 10y ago
Well, the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you is exactly how society works. It's just that everybody is the someone else. I say this as the weird guy random walking the parking lot, picking up trash and transporting it to the wastebin.
jhatax 10y ago
A lot of research has gone into what makes people behave this way. Read about "Tragedy of Commons"[1] and "Diffusion of Responsibility" [2] for more insights. The net-net is that people rationalize their actions using whatever means necessary. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

by J-dawg 10y ago

all_usernames 10y ago

If you've spent your whole life feeling victimized by society then you do whatever little things you can to give a big middle finger back. If you're a Black single mom that has to work two jobs to get by, maybe it's easy for you to justify throwing your McDonald's wrappers on the parking lot ground.

fao_ 10y ago
The race of the person was not mentioned, it was interesting that you assumed that they were black -- although I do not disagree with your point.
- louhike 10y ago
  It was an example of a kind of person being victimized by society.
J-dawg 10y ago
This is an interesting way of looking at it. I wonder if this really is the psychology of people who do stuff like this. If this is the case, it would be interesting to find out whether there is some correlation between wealth inequality and rates of littering.
- 2muchcoffeeman 10y ago
  A counter point would be all the smoking middle class people I see everyday that throw their butts on the ground.
chrisbennet 10y ago
I have a different theory: I call it the "raised by wolves theory". If a person doesn't have the benefit of good parenting/good examples, they grow up to be less socialized. The single mom in your example may have had little parenting because her mom was working 3 jobs perhaps. Anyone else remember the "don't litter" public service announcement on TV with a crying Indian?
mercer 10y ago
I think a much simpler explanation is that most people don't bother justifying much of their behavior in the first place.

mercer 10y ago

I don't think you can neatly separate people by their behavior in this manner, in general, but also in particular when it comes to 'automatic', frequent behavior like disposing of trash. People are irrational. Most smokers I know will carefully separate their trash and walk hundreds of meters to put everything in the right bin... and yet dispose of their cigarettes all over the place. To my shame I have to admit I was one of those people. Somehow the inconsistency just didn't cross my mind. So many other thoughts took precedence. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, mind. I do understand the anger and frustration, but I think it's both fairer and more productive to assume that people are not doing these things to intentionally cause harm, and that they might well be upstanding citizens in other areas of life.

tucaz 10y ago
I smoke and I was pretty much the person you described until a couple years ago when I saw a friend going out of his way to dispose of the cigarette butts in a trash can. Since them I do whatever I have to do, including storing it inside my cigarette pack, to not throw any butts on the floor.
- mercer 10y ago
  Same here! Monkey see, monkey do.
- surge 10y ago
  As a non-smoker, it's my number one gripe with smokers and why I used to consider them scum with little remorse when places started restricting where they smoke, this I judge smokers for more than anything else. So many butts strewn about every where, outside side exits, in the grass by benches, do they think fiberglass is biodegradable or something? I can be in a nice place, a outdoor setting that is other wise pristine, but you'll see a mound of cigerette butt's. It'll often be next to an ash tray or cigarette disposal too. I don't fathom how you don't/didn't notice, it's like throwing bubblegum wrappers on the ground, yeah its small, but when you smoke packs of cigarettes in the same spot it adds up, not to mention more of a hassle to clean up by others like picking up confetti off the ground. I'm glad you realized it, but I can't imagine how people are utterly clueless about it being a problem (I just assumed all smokers were a-holes because they didn't care).

pharrington 10y ago

Well, the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you is exactly how society works. It's just that everybody is the someone else. I say this as the weird guy random walking the parking lot, picking up trash and transporting it to the wastebin.

jhatax 10y ago

A lot of research has gone into what makes people behave this way. Read about "Tragedy of Commons"[1] and "Diffusion of Responsibility" [2] for more insights. The net-net is that people rationalize their actions using whatever means necessary. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility