13 ms·

This is India. Starving, thirsty, injured (hit by cars and trucks) cows and dogs roam the streets, hobbling along, limping along. There are people starving on t

This is India. Starving, thirsty, injured (hit by cars and trucks) cows and dogs roam the streets, hobbling along, limping along. There are people starving on the street-side. The poorest children are openly prostituted on the streets. How are they going to enforce a rule regarding plastic bags? The rich will continue to do whatever they want. The middle-classes will continue to do whatever they can get away with. The poor will continue to be shit on and abused. ------------ About 20 years ago they banned smoking in public in Delhi (I was there when they did it). All that this ordinance did was to give the police yet another angle to harass people. More corruption. More bribes.

tluyben2 10y ago
Smoking in public seems a bit extreme, but for instance smoking in bars/restaurants was introduced in the country where I lived first in 2006 and tightened in 2011 but a lot of bars still just kept doing it. Especially in small villages. Until some of them were fined; the fines are so high that they basically have to close and have debts after that. Even for 'rich' people this is a too much. Since a few of those were made public, no-one dares to do it anymore. But in public seems ... very hard to enforce. So one would think, with plastic, just fine the people giving/selling the plastic bags. If you give/sell a non degradable plastic bag it has to carry a return deposit of $25 per bag or you get fined, as a shop, $200k. Plastic bags will be gone in no time flat. Far easier to enforce and too rich, also for the rich. Good for companies and the world as they can sell paper bags and biodegradable bags.
someonenice 10y ago
Public Smoking ban has been largely effective in India. You rarely see people smoking in public areas. The effectiveness of these laws are that it allows concerned citizens to raise their voice when they see law is being broken.
- ankit28595 10y ago
  I would have to disagree. I travel by public transport and I see plenty of people smoking at the bus stands and railway stations.
- hive_mind 10y ago
  > it allows concerned citizens to raise their voice when they see law is being broken How exactly do concerned citizens raise their voice in India? I once saw a stray dog that had been run over by a car licking its wounds, waiting to die. After which it would lay there on the road-side until it had been eaten by birds and insects. I wanted to raise awareness of my various concerns about this. How should I have gone about it? Genuinely interested in learning from you. An aside: the stoic, pious strength I saw on the dog's face as it licked itself, knowing it was dying, was one of the most powerful things I've ever seen.
  - jogjayr 10y ago
    > How exactly do concerned citizens raise their voice in India? In general, much the same as other countries. Call/write/meet with your municipal corporation member/MLA/MP (though it's doubtful you'll get an audience unless you have an in). Call/write/meet with the opposition party members, if it's something that can make the party in power look bad. Post on social media. If it's newsworthy, there's a very noisy (and competitive) print and TV media willing to listen to you. I'm not saying all these are effective options, but they _are_ options. > I wanted to raise awareness of my various concerns about this. How should I have gone about it? Genuinely interested in learning from you. You could've tried to take it to a vet. My friends and I did this once with a kitten that got run over. It died before we made it unfortunately. Ofc, there's probably a greater risk of being bitten by a panicky dog that's in pain, than with a kitten (my friend got bitten).
ageis 10y ago
There are people starving on the street sides in San Francisco and every major US downtown. There are starving, thirsty people in every major city in the US. This has nothing to do with enforcing ban on plastics.
- kamaal 10y ago
  The parent's larger point is apathy. This is very widespread in India, to an extent people don't bother about anything at all until they are personally affected by an issue, by that time they cry victim start blaming governments, neighbors, society et al for not doing enough. Near my home, people are so deeply into this phenomenon they won't contribute a signature to a list, for a letter of request to fix sanitation, or roads, or a street light. I've even been told by the local Municipal engineer why is that its always me who raises these issues, and if its really so important why don't others speak up. Things came down to a point, when I had to take precautions to fix things for myself. It turns out larger sanitation broke down in a year or two, then all of a sudden my neighbors wanted me to spend all my time working taking off from work to work for them while they relax at home. We call this 'Chalta hai' attitude in India. Which basically translates to 'works fine for now'.
  - ageis 10y ago
    If we are getting into the root cause it is not apathy but resignation. Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. This is equivalent to asking someone in the US to make changes when it comes to healthcare sector or electoral funding. Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change. This is the same resignation seen in the parent's comment about nothing in India changing - they have absolutely no way to make any impact and they have resigned That still has nothing to do with police's ability or willingness to enforce ban on plastics.
    - kamaal 10y ago
      >>Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. Sorry. Simple things like not throwing trash on streets, or starting early for office(to avoid driving rashly on roads), or voting in elections, or ensuring you have tree outside your home. Most things are completely harmless. What risk are you taking by not throwing garbage on streets? In fact this is the very thing 'Chalta hai' stands for. People make excuses for why they can't, instead of looking for reasons for why they can. >>Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change. Most people I've met around my home are like want to sit down and relax when somebody else works for them. Easy way to describe these people is they are 'lazy'. Let's call them what they are, instead of making it look like they are moving mountains to make things happen, and the real culprit is some threat or risk from society.

tluyben2 10y ago

Smoking in public seems a bit extreme, but for instance smoking in bars/restaurants was introduced in the country where I lived first in 2006 and tightened in 2011 but a lot of bars still just kept doing it. Especially in small villages. Until some of them were fined; the fines are so high that they basically have to close and have debts after that. Even for 'rich' people this is a too much. Since a few of those were made public, no-one dares to do it anymore. But in public seems ... very hard to enforce. So one would think, with plastic, just fine the people giving/selling the plastic bags. If you give/sell a non degradable plastic bag it has to carry a return deposit of $25 per bag or you get fined, as a shop, $200k. Plastic bags will be gone in no time flat. Far easier to enforce and too rich, also for the rich. Good for companies and the world as they can sell paper bags and biodegradable bags.

someonenice 10y ago

Public Smoking ban has been largely effective in India. You rarely see people smoking in public areas. The effectiveness of these laws are that it allows concerned citizens to raise their voice when they see law is being broken.

ankit28595 10y ago
I would have to disagree. I travel by public transport and I see plenty of people smoking at the bus stands and railway stations.
hive_mind 10y ago
> it allows concerned citizens to raise their voice when they see law is being broken How exactly do concerned citizens raise their voice in India? I once saw a stray dog that had been run over by a car licking its wounds, waiting to die. After which it would lay there on the road-side until it had been eaten by birds and insects. I wanted to raise awareness of my various concerns about this. How should I have gone about it? Genuinely interested in learning from you. An aside: the stoic, pious strength I saw on the dog's face as it licked itself, knowing it was dying, was one of the most powerful things I've ever seen.
- jogjayr 10y ago
  > How exactly do concerned citizens raise their voice in India? In general, much the same as other countries. Call/write/meet with your municipal corporation member/MLA/MP (though it's doubtful you'll get an audience unless you have an in). Call/write/meet with the opposition party members, if it's something that can make the party in power look bad. Post on social media. If it's newsworthy, there's a very noisy (and competitive) print and TV media willing to listen to you. I'm not saying all these are effective options, but they _are_ options. > I wanted to raise awareness of my various concerns about this. How should I have gone about it? Genuinely interested in learning from you. You could've tried to take it to a vet. My friends and I did this once with a kitten that got run over. It died before we made it unfortunately. Ofc, there's probably a greater risk of being bitten by a panicky dog that's in pain, than with a kitten (my friend got bitten).

ageis 10y ago

There are people starving on the street sides in San Francisco and every major US downtown. There are starving, thirsty people in every major city in the US. This has nothing to do with enforcing ban on plastics.

kamaal 10y ago
The parent's larger point is apathy. This is very widespread in India, to an extent people don't bother about anything at all until they are personally affected by an issue, by that time they cry victim start blaming governments, neighbors, society et al for not doing enough. Near my home, people are so deeply into this phenomenon they won't contribute a signature to a list, for a letter of request to fix sanitation, or roads, or a street light. I've even been told by the local Municipal engineer why is that its always me who raises these issues, and if its really so important why don't others speak up. Things came down to a point, when I had to take precautions to fix things for myself. It turns out larger sanitation broke down in a year or two, then all of a sudden my neighbors wanted me to spend all my time working taking off from work to work for them while they relax at home. We call this 'Chalta hai' attitude in India. Which basically translates to 'works fine for now'.
- ageis 10y ago
  If we are getting into the root cause it is not apathy but resignation. Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. This is equivalent to asking someone in the US to make changes when it comes to healthcare sector or electoral funding. Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change. This is the same resignation seen in the parent's comment about nothing in India changing - they have absolutely no way to make any impact and they have resigned That still has nothing to do with police's ability or willingness to enforce ban on plastics.
  - kamaal 10y ago
    >>Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. Sorry. Simple things like not throwing trash on streets, or starting early for office(to avoid driving rashly on roads), or voting in elections, or ensuring you have tree outside your home. Most things are completely harmless. What risk are you taking by not throwing garbage on streets? In fact this is the very thing 'Chalta hai' stands for. People make excuses for why they can't, instead of looking for reasons for why they can. >>Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change. Most people I've met around my home are like want to sit down and relax when somebody else works for them. Easy way to describe these people is they are 'lazy'. Let's call them what they are, instead of making it look like they are moving mountains to make things happen, and the real culprit is some threat or risk from society.