5 ms·

It's interesting how Apple's real, live products constantly have to compete against demos.

timmorgan 16y ago
Wasn't it not too long ago Steve Jobs did the same thing on a stage for Snow Leopard (or just Leopard, can't remember), comparing it to Vista? This was months before it shipped.
- alabut 16y ago
  "This was months before it shipped." But it actually shipped. And in months, not years. Plus what they demo tends to match what they ship. Whereas designers like me drooled over the demo videos of the Microsoft Courier dual screen tablet for what, a year? And it ended up never getting made. Drooled over the Crunchpad too and we all know how that went.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    > Drooled over the Crunchpad too and we all know how that went. I know, it's awesome how it turned into an iPad!
  - timmorgan 16y ago
    "But it actually shipped." And so will Android. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.
    - alabut 16y ago
      Their constant battle with vaporware of various stripes isn't with only one company - some of the competitors ship but slip way behind on dates and/or release hurried crappy releases, some don't ship at all and make true vaporware demos, but Apple tends to rarely pre-announce things and therefore doesn't ever slip behind publicly committed ship dates. Or ship stuff that's clearly beta because of a publicly committed ship date. Check out how Google hedged their bets by fudging the UI of Google TV. Who knows how this thing will actually work like because the interface in the video was drawn with frigging crayons.
jrockway 16y ago
It's also interesting how I can "git clone git://android.git.kernel.org/whatever", edit the code, and install it on my phone. Without any permission from anyone.
- swannodette 16y ago
  Which is interesting (much less understandable) for about 0.0001% of the people that have a phone. But yes, you have point. That is nice.
  - poppysan 16y ago
    http://gear.ign.com/articles/108/1088942p1.html http://gear.ign.com/articles/108/1088942p1.html
    - rictic 16y ago
      It is my understanding that very few of those devices are developer devices, where the user is allowed to install their own OS. Otherwise you have to root the phone, which is a violation of the increasingly international DMCA-style anti-circumvention law. I haven't checked this info in a little while though, if most Android devices are sold with root I'm very happy to be corrected.
      - jrockway 16y ago
        Rooting your phone is not a DMCA violation. sudo simply is not pre-installed, it's an app you have to add yourself, just like anything else. Reverse engineering for interoperability is a DMCA exception, and there are plans to make the language in the law specifically refer to "jailbreaking" phones. Also, at least with Android devices I've worked with, there is no trickery involved to flash a new firmware. You just do it.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    You're right, most end users don't hack Android. Or their computer, or their car, or their washing machine, or anything. But, these people can pay others to do so. Anyone can make their own Android-based device, just like anyone can fix your computer or your car or your washing machine. Compare this to the competition, like iPhone OS, Windows Mobile, and Blackberry. You simply can't sell a device with one of those OSes without permission from the vendor. And the vendor is not going to give you permission, except maybe Microsoft for Windows. That's the power of Android - anyone can improve it and profit from their improvements, without permission from anyone else.
derekc 16y ago
Perhaps Apple TV debuted at the wrong timing. Google simply waited.
- jws 16y ago
  They both still have to wait for the content providers to play ball.
not_an_alien 16y ago
The keynote was a mix of real stuff that's just being released and forthcoming stuff, just like every Apple keynote. Not sure what you're talking about.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
martythemaniak 16y ago
Yeah, Apple never demos products several months before availability. They're so awesome!
jasonlotito 16y ago
It goes both ways. Apple has to compete against demos. People have to compete against Apple demos. Apple goes up on stage, shows off something that isn't yet release, still, and yet people keep talking about it as if it's here.

Wasn't it not too long ago Steve Jobs did the same thing on a stage for Snow Leopard (or just Leopard, can't remember), comparing it to Vista? This was months before it shipped.

alabut 16y ago
"This was months before it shipped." But it actually shipped. And in months, not years. Plus what they demo tends to match what they ship. Whereas designers like me drooled over the demo videos of the Microsoft Courier dual screen tablet for what, a year? And it ended up never getting made. Drooled over the Crunchpad too and we all know how that went.
- elblanco 16y ago
  > Drooled over the Crunchpad too and we all know how that went. I know, it's awesome how it turned into an iPad!
- timmorgan 16y ago
  "But it actually shipped." And so will Android. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.
  - alabut 16y ago
    Their constant battle with vaporware of various stripes isn't with only one company - some of the competitors ship but slip way behind on dates and/or release hurried crappy releases, some don't ship at all and make true vaporware demos, but Apple tends to rarely pre-announce things and therefore doesn't ever slip behind publicly committed ship dates. Or ship stuff that's clearly beta because of a publicly committed ship date. Check out how Google hedged their bets by fudging the UI of Google TV. Who knows how this thing will actually work like because the interface in the video was drawn with frigging crayons.

jrockway 16y ago

It's also interesting how I can "git clone git://android.git.kernel.org/whatever", edit the code, and install it on my phone. Without any permission from anyone.

swannodette 16y ago
Which is interesting (much less understandable) for about 0.0001% of the people that have a phone. But yes, you have point. That is nice.
- poppysan 16y ago
  http://gear.ign.com/articles/108/1088942p1.html http://gear.ign.com/articles/108/1088942p1.html
  - rictic 16y ago
    It is my understanding that very few of those devices are developer devices, where the user is allowed to install their own OS. Otherwise you have to root the phone, which is a violation of the increasingly international DMCA-style anti-circumvention law. I haven't checked this info in a little while though, if most Android devices are sold with root I'm very happy to be corrected.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Rooting your phone is not a DMCA violation. sudo simply is not pre-installed, it's an app you have to add yourself, just like anything else. Reverse engineering for interoperability is a DMCA exception, and there are plans to make the language in the law specifically refer to "jailbreaking" phones. Also, at least with Android devices I've worked with, there is no trickery involved to flash a new firmware. You just do it.
- jrockway 16y ago
  You're right, most end users don't hack Android. Or their computer, or their car, or their washing machine, or anything. But, these people can pay others to do so. Anyone can make their own Android-based device, just like anyone can fix your computer or your car or your washing machine. Compare this to the competition, like iPhone OS, Windows Mobile, and Blackberry. You simply can't sell a device with one of those OSes without permission from the vendor. And the vendor is not going to give you permission, except maybe Microsoft for Windows. That's the power of Android - anyone can improve it and profit from their improvements, without permission from anyone else.

derekc 16y ago

Perhaps Apple TV debuted at the wrong timing. Google simply waited.

jws 16y ago
They both still have to wait for the content providers to play ball.

not_an_alien 16y ago

The keynote was a mix of real stuff that's just being released and forthcoming stuff, just like every Apple keynote. Not sure what you're talking about.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

martythemaniak 16y ago

Yeah, Apple never demos products several months before availability. They're so awesome!

jasonlotito 16y ago

It goes both ways. Apple has to compete against demos. People have to compete against Apple demos. Apple goes up on stage, shows off something that isn't yet release, still, and yet people keep talking about it as if it's here.