4 ms·

Not a huge fan of outright bans, and think this is probably the wrong priority for India to focus on. (I understand this is just Delhi) Air pollution is huge r

Not a huge fan of outright bans, and think this is probably the wrong priority for India to focus on. (I understand this is just Delhi) Air pollution is huge right now. And sad to say, people pooping in streets and rivers is still a major problem. To me, plastic remnants are a very minor issue in comparison.

pilsetnieks 10y ago
But a ban on plastic bags is easy, it is quick and immediate. Whereas the other problems you mention may take decades, if ever, to solve. At least they're doing something. And it's not like the people enforcing the ban would be the same people who would otherwise install air and water filtration systems. If there's anything India does have in abundance, it's manpower.
- mstodd 10y ago
  So what if it's fast and easy? Plastic bags are incredibly efficient. They're popular for a reason. If you want to keep people impoverished, this is how you do it
bendermon 10y ago
Even if you poop in your fancy bungalow toilet, it does end up in the rivers, along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. Banning disposable plastic and non biodegradable detergents would go a great way in letting microbes and plants do their job in cleaning up the environment. With plastics not clogging up the rivers and chemicals not killing all river life, the rivers would definitely run much cleaner. This move was incidentally meant to curb air pollution, so clean rivers or oceans are an added benefit.
- SixSigma 10y ago
  > along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. don't forget corpses http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary...
  - bendermon 10y ago
    Corpses are biodegradable aren't they unless, it is that of superman. Good protein feed for the fish, birds, crocodiles. Instead of taking up real estate.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      Not when you eat the animals that eat corpses afterwards. That's how you spread diseases, plus when animals eat human flesh, they leave bits floating in the water supply. We bury people for a reason. Or we burn them, or leave them on the land to get eaten by animals, away from water supplies. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial) The difference between what you're proposing is the difference between composting an animal corpse and then using it to fertilize your crops, or just grinding it up and spraying it all over your tomatoes.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Even if you poop in your fancy bungalow toilet, it does end up in the rivers, along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. Wastewater should be treated. And at least if you concentrate all the waste into one place, you greatly reduce the spread of infectious diseases spread by untreated waste. Also, your children tend not to be stunted. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sanjay-wijesekera/why-are-indian-kids-small_b_8980648.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sanjay-wijesekera/why-are-indi...
mahyarm 10y ago
What will be the effect in air pollution when burning plastic garbage is replaced with things like paper garbage and the poor return their glass bottles because it gives them $$$?
- eru 10y ago
  Cans are actually more energy efficient to produce and recycle.
  - TillE 10y ago
    I don't think that's the case. Sturdy glass bottles can simply be washed a few dozen times before they wear out, whereas aluminum cans must be melted down and remade.
    - eru 10y ago
      Sorry, I was talking about glass recycling vs can recycling. Yes, washing glass is quite a bit more economical than glass recycling. We do the whole glass deposit thing in Germany where I grew up. (The deposit is actually pretty clever: if you are rich enough not to care, you can just leave your bottle anywhere, and someone else with more time but less money will pick it up sooner or later.)
duskwuff 10y ago
This feels like a piece of "what-about-ism". Certainly there are other environmental issues facing India -- but that doesn't mean that this one isn't worth dealing with either.
tn13 10y ago
Yes but Delhi currently has a clown for a Chief minister. He comes up with notorious schemes like this. Recently he came up with odd-even rule for traffic and with clever exemptions for women, taxies and what not leading to a complete failure. Water logging is a big issue in Mumbai and perhaps there this policy was useful. Delhi's air pollution is not because of Delhi but because of surrounding areas. Nothing can be done there.
ageis 10y ago
Does a software company focus on improving just one aspect of their software or during any time progress is made on several fronts? Why is it that governments (specially the ones in developing countries) are expected to make progress in only one front when there are more specialised departments for each areas?
ptha 10y ago
This was affecting air pollution, from 2nd and 3rd paragraph: India’s National Green Tribunal (NGT) introduced the ban following complaints of illegal burning of plastic and other waste at three local rubbish dumps. The ban took effect on the first day of 2017. The illegal burning of waste was said to have been contributing to air pollution, which is a major problem in India.

pilsetnieks 10y ago

But a ban on plastic bags is easy, it is quick and immediate. Whereas the other problems you mention may take decades, if ever, to solve. At least they're doing something. And it's not like the people enforcing the ban would be the same people who would otherwise install air and water filtration systems. If there's anything India does have in abundance, it's manpower.

mstodd 10y ago
So what if it's fast and easy? Plastic bags are incredibly efficient. They're popular for a reason. If you want to keep people impoverished, this is how you do it

bendermon 10y ago

Even if you poop in your fancy bungalow toilet, it does end up in the rivers, along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. Banning disposable plastic and non biodegradable detergents would go a great way in letting microbes and plants do their job in cleaning up the environment. With plastics not clogging up the rivers and chemicals not killing all river life, the rivers would definitely run much cleaner. This move was incidentally meant to curb air pollution, so clean rivers or oceans are an added benefit.

SixSigma 10y ago
> along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. don't forget corpses http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary...
- bendermon 10y ago
  Corpses are biodegradable aren't they unless, it is that of superman. Good protein feed for the fish, birds, crocodiles. Instead of taking up real estate.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    Not when you eat the animals that eat corpses afterwards. That's how you spread diseases, plus when animals eat human flesh, they leave bits floating in the water supply. We bury people for a reason. Or we burn them, or leave them on the land to get eaten by animals, away from water supplies. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial) The difference between what you're proposing is the difference between composting an animal corpse and then using it to fertilize your crops, or just grinding it up and spraying it all over your tomatoes.
jimmywanger 10y ago
> Even if you poop in your fancy bungalow toilet, it does end up in the rivers, along with detergent and toxic toilet cleaners. Wastewater should be treated. And at least if you concentrate all the waste into one place, you greatly reduce the spread of infectious diseases spread by untreated waste. Also, your children tend not to be stunted. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sanjay-wijesekera/why-are-indian-kids-small_b_8980648.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sanjay-wijesekera/why-are-indi...

mahyarm 10y ago

What will be the effect in air pollution when burning plastic garbage is replaced with things like paper garbage and the poor return their glass bottles because it gives them $$$?

eru 10y ago
Cans are actually more energy efficient to produce and recycle.
- TillE 10y ago
  I don't think that's the case. Sturdy glass bottles can simply be washed a few dozen times before they wear out, whereas aluminum cans must be melted down and remade.
  - eru 10y ago
    Sorry, I was talking about glass recycling vs can recycling. Yes, washing glass is quite a bit more economical than glass recycling. We do the whole glass deposit thing in Germany where I grew up. (The deposit is actually pretty clever: if you are rich enough not to care, you can just leave your bottle anywhere, and someone else with more time but less money will pick it up sooner or later.)

duskwuff 10y ago

This feels like a piece of "what-about-ism". Certainly there are other environmental issues facing India -- but that doesn't mean that this one isn't worth dealing with either.

tn13 10y ago

Yes but Delhi currently has a clown for a Chief minister. He comes up with notorious schemes like this. Recently he came up with odd-even rule for traffic and with clever exemptions for women, taxies and what not leading to a complete failure. Water logging is a big issue in Mumbai and perhaps there this policy was useful. Delhi's air pollution is not because of Delhi but because of surrounding areas. Nothing can be done there.

ageis 10y ago

Does a software company focus on improving just one aspect of their software or during any time progress is made on several fronts? Why is it that governments (specially the ones in developing countries) are expected to make progress in only one front when there are more specialised departments for each areas?

ptha 10y ago

This was affecting air pollution, from 2nd and 3rd paragraph: India’s National Green Tribunal (NGT) introduced the ban following complaints of illegal burning of plastic and other waste at three local rubbish dumps. The ban took effect on the first day of 2017. The illegal burning of waste was said to have been contributing to air pollution, which is a major problem in India.