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Is this what the halt state for Western civilization looks like? Very high quality of life, long lifespans, and essentially no crime, but at a cost of rampant e

Is this what the halt state for Western civilization looks like? Very high quality of life, long lifespans, and essentially no crime, but at a cost of rampant ennui. The shrinking population thing is basically happening in every first world country, we only notice it in Japan because their immigration policy is essentially "No."

draw_down 10y ago
High quality of life for who?
- aisofteng 10y ago
  For at least most people.
jessriedel 10y ago
It's only temporary, although it could in principle last a few centuries. Birthrate isn't homogeneous in a population, and is partly transferable across generations, either culturally or genetically. So subpopulations with higher birthrate will eventually come to dominate. Dramatically over-simplified model: Mormons in the US have 3.4 children compared to the national average of 2.1. They currently number about 6M, or 2% of the US population. If they grow by a factor of 3.4/2.1=1.62 (i.e., 62%) each generation, then it takes 8.1 generations, or a bit over 200 years, for them to become the majority.
Analemma_ 10y ago
I wonder if post-scarcity will reveal that ennui and depression are the "default state" for human beings and we just never noticed because we always had enough work to distract ourselves.
- halbrd 10y ago
  I would argue the opposite. All of human history until relatively recently involved hunting and gathering to survive, and later agriculture, which still involved manual work. I think ennui is a new experience unlocked by industry and automation, since we no longer have to work for our basic needs.
- xiaoma 10y ago
  "Fiero is what we feel after we triumph over adversity. You know it when you feel it – and when you see it. That’s because we almost all express fiero in exactly the same way: we throw our arms over our head and yell." - Reality is Broken, Jane McGonigal Life without challenge is lived poorly and never punctuated by fiero.

draw_down 10y ago

High quality of life for who?

aisofteng 10y ago
For at least most people.

jessriedel 10y ago

It's only temporary, although it could in principle last a few centuries. Birthrate isn't homogeneous in a population, and is partly transferable across generations, either culturally or genetically. So subpopulations with higher birthrate will eventually come to dominate. Dramatically over-simplified model: Mormons in the US have 3.4 children compared to the national average of 2.1. They currently number about 6M, or 2% of the US population. If they grow by a factor of 3.4/2.1=1.62 (i.e., 62%) each generation, then it takes 8.1 generations, or a bit over 200 years, for them to become the majority.

Analemma_ 10y ago

I wonder if post-scarcity will reveal that ennui and depression are the "default state" for human beings and we just never noticed because we always had enough work to distract ourselves.

halbrd 10y ago
I would argue the opposite. All of human history until relatively recently involved hunting and gathering to survive, and later agriculture, which still involved manual work. I think ennui is a new experience unlocked by industry and automation, since we no longer have to work for our basic needs.
xiaoma 10y ago
"Fiero is what we feel after we triumph over adversity. You know it when you feel it – and when you see it. That’s because we almost all express fiero in exactly the same way: we throw our arms over our head and yell." - Reality is Broken, Jane McGonigal Life without challenge is lived poorly and never punctuated by fiero.