9 ms·

Phones should load different profiles based on the password provided, with some activity logged across profiles so none of them appear stale.

by rch 10y ago

Spooky23 10y ago
You're implying that people should behave in a manner that is a serious felony in the United States and likely other places.
- sosborn 10y ago
  Honest question: How is that a felony? I have multiple profiles on my home machine. Does that make me a felon?
  - mustacheemperor 10y ago
    I'm assuming they're referring to the serious felony of lying to border police that you've fully unlocked your phone as requested when in reality you're presenting an artificially limited profile.
    - idbehold 10y ago
      I don't know what you mean by "fully unlocked". Is there a legal definition for this? I made available to you more than just the lock screen software of my electronic device by entering a passcode, what more does "fully unlocked" entail (Please cite sources)?
      - khedoros1 10y ago
        An argument like this is fun on the internet, and it might (eventually) help you out in the courtroom. Let us know how it works out for you if the border guard decides that you're trying to make a fool out of him.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    If you are asked to produce the contents of your property and provide access to a subset of that property, that will be interpreted as either hindering official action or lying to a federal agent. Lying to a federal agent is a felony. From the customs agent and legal point of view, there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device.
    - idbehold 10y ago
      They asked him to provide the password, they didn't ask him to produce the contents of his property. > They eventually returned and said they’d release him if he told them the password to unlock his phone. How have I hindered official action or lied to a federal agent by providing one of my passwords?
      - khedoros1 10y ago
        > How have I hindered official action or lied to a federal agent by providing one of my passwords? The same way that your child disobeyed you when you say "Go to bed", and they lay in yours and tell you "You didn't say which bed". Clearly, the border agent wasn't asking for the password to your alternate, fake part of the phone, and they aren't likely to be happy if they figure out that you followed your own interpretation of the letter of the order, rather than an interpretation that conforms to the spirit of the order.
    - scintill76 10y ago
      > there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device Is it really illegal to have a secret compartment in your luggage? I mean, I have no doubt it's highly risky and that they will make the case you've done something wrong, but have you inherently done something illegal by merely having a secret compartment? Maybe only if you've explicitly represented that there are no other compartments? Or you've got contraband in there, or something else they've explicitly inquired about that you claimed you don't have? (But that's more about lying or existing laws, than the compartment itself.) If you turned over your phone for inspection and could see they were looking in an app you don't use, are you committing a felony to not volunteer that they should look in the other browser for your real history or whatever? If having two profiles and only providing one is illegal, what about having two phones? (like your "real" one in your luggage, turned off.) Do I have to volunteer that when they asked for "my phone" that I actually have multiple? What if I kept the "real" one at home -- do I have to tell them the one they're looking at is only a subset of my property and doesn't represent what they probably actually meant when they asked for "my phone"? I'm not entirely sure where "the lines" are here, but perhaps the passcode is part of it. Once they require that, they've crossed from dealing with physical items physically crossing the border, passing into things that are in your mind or physically located elsewhere. If they can require a lockscreen code, there's not really any reason they can't require every other password since those are "secret compartments" accessible from your phone, and if just having an undisclosed compartment really is illegal, I guess you'd better volunteer an exhaustive list of all your accounts...
  - AckSyn 10y ago
    The parent poster was talking out their rear. There is no way utilizing such a tool, if it were available, is felonious in nature whatsoever. Having multiple profiles per device and accessible in this manner would be preferable for a number of reasons. Least of which is not wanting anyone else access to your own sensitive information that they have no business looking at to begin with.
  - jandrese 10y ago
    I'm guessing it is under some blanket "intent to deceive border protection official" bullcrap. Immigration has very broad powers, but even then this sort of case would be difficult to make IMHO.
    - jrs235 10y ago
      >Immigration has very broad powers, but even then this sort of case would be difficult to make IMHO. I agree. But who has the time and money to defend themselves in court against the unlimited resources of the government?
      - taylodl 10y ago
        That's the purpose fulfilled by advocacy groups such as the ACLU.
        jrs235 10y ago
        Good point. But can the defendant afford to sit in jail while things are adjudicated?
- bionsuba 10y ago
  that is a serious felony in the United States How so?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
  What is the felony exactly?
- benologist 10y ago
  What is the maximum extent to which we can defend users of our software?
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Have a mode that allows users to selectively designate and delete sensitive data. Everyone has the feels over this border stuff and HN is collectively spewing the same inane questions repeatedly, but the reality is that people are more likely to get into trouble more often when spouses, employers, teachers, family, etc get to see things that weren't intended to be seen. We have airplane mode to shut off phone radios, why not a purge mode to whack marked data. On iOS, the most rudimentary level of this sort of protection is available with MDM -- you can configure a device to erase managed data when it leaves a building or campus. The device is still active and manageable, but the data is gone until it becomes compliant.
admax88q 10y ago
Phone's should have a travel mode, where it backs up all your data to the cloud and wipes the phone clean.
- eridius 10y ago
  Why does that need a special mode? Just back up your phone and factory reset it.
  - jazoom 10y ago
    That's not the same thing, and nowhere near as helpful. Why would I want to wipe my phone every border cross if I don't have to?
    - eridius 10y ago
      admax88q said they wanted a mode where it wipes your phone. That mode is called "factory reset". If what you want is a mode that wipes your phone only when a CBP agent looks at it, as other people have stated in the comments here, you'd probably be committing some sort of crime (e.g. destruction of evidence or lying to a federal agent). The only truly safe way to cross is to not actually have your data when you cross, not to try and throw it away once you get singled out by agents.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - jazoom 10y ago
        I assume you're thinking about USA, which is a country I have no desire to visit.
        khedoros1 10y ago
        If you aren't planning on going to the US or to whichever other countries might try something similar, then I suppose it's a moot point for you, and you don't need to worry about your phone at all. But if your home government started treating you unreasonably, you might also be interested in having a discussion about possible reactions to the new policies, right?
6t6t6t6 10y ago
Most of the information on Android phones is stored on the Cloud. Someone can factory reset their phone before crossing the border, create a new empty profile* just to show it to customs and, once they are in a "safe zone", factory-reset it again and load the good profile that will automatically download the user data and apps. * Just to make the customs agents happy, I would fill the history of the fake profile with porn and pictures of donuts.

Phones should load different profiles based on the password provided, with some activity logged across profiles so none of them appear stale.

by rch 10y ago

Phones should load different profiles based on the password provided, with some activity logged across profiles so none of them appear stale.

Spooky23 10y ago

You're implying that people should behave in a manner that is a serious felony in the United States and likely other places.

sosborn 10y ago
Honest question: How is that a felony? I have multiple profiles on my home machine. Does that make me a felon?
- mustacheemperor 10y ago
  I'm assuming they're referring to the serious felony of lying to border police that you've fully unlocked your phone as requested when in reality you're presenting an artificially limited profile.
  - idbehold 10y ago
    I don't know what you mean by "fully unlocked". Is there a legal definition for this? I made available to you more than just the lock screen software of my electronic device by entering a passcode, what more does "fully unlocked" entail (Please cite sources)?
    - khedoros1 10y ago
      An argument like this is fun on the internet, and it might (eventually) help you out in the courtroom. Let us know how it works out for you if the border guard decides that you're trying to make a fool out of him.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  If you are asked to produce the contents of your property and provide access to a subset of that property, that will be interpreted as either hindering official action or lying to a federal agent. Lying to a federal agent is a felony. From the customs agent and legal point of view, there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device.
  - idbehold 10y ago
    They asked him to provide the password, they didn't ask him to produce the contents of his property. > They eventually returned and said they’d release him if he told them the password to unlock his phone. How have I hindered official action or lied to a federal agent by providing one of my passwords?
    - khedoros1 10y ago
      > How have I hindered official action or lied to a federal agent by providing one of my passwords? The same way that your child disobeyed you when you say "Go to bed", and they lay in yours and tell you "You didn't say which bed". Clearly, the border agent wasn't asking for the password to your alternate, fake part of the phone, and they aren't likely to be happy if they figure out that you followed your own interpretation of the letter of the order, rather than an interpretation that conforms to the spirit of the order.
  - scintill76 10y ago
    > there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device Is it really illegal to have a secret compartment in your luggage? I mean, I have no doubt it's highly risky and that they will make the case you've done something wrong, but have you inherently done something illegal by merely having a secret compartment? Maybe only if you've explicitly represented that there are no other compartments? Or you've got contraband in there, or something else they've explicitly inquired about that you claimed you don't have? (But that's more about lying or existing laws, than the compartment itself.) If you turned over your phone for inspection and could see they were looking in an app you don't use, are you committing a felony to not volunteer that they should look in the other browser for your real history or whatever? If having two profiles and only providing one is illegal, what about having two phones? (like your "real" one in your luggage, turned off.) Do I have to volunteer that when they asked for "my phone" that I actually have multiple? What if I kept the "real" one at home -- do I have to tell them the one they're looking at is only a subset of my property and doesn't represent what they probably actually meant when they asked for "my phone"? I'm not entirely sure where "the lines" are here, but perhaps the passcode is part of it. Once they require that, they've crossed from dealing with physical items physically crossing the border, passing into things that are in your mind or physically located elsewhere. If they can require a lockscreen code, there's not really any reason they can't require every other password since those are "secret compartments" accessible from your phone, and if just having an undisclosed compartment really is illegal, I guess you'd better volunteer an exhaustive list of all your accounts...
- AckSyn 10y ago
  The parent poster was talking out their rear. There is no way utilizing such a tool, if it were available, is felonious in nature whatsoever. Having multiple profiles per device and accessible in this manner would be preferable for a number of reasons. Least of which is not wanting anyone else access to your own sensitive information that they have no business looking at to begin with.
- jandrese 10y ago
  I'm guessing it is under some blanket "intent to deceive border protection official" bullcrap. Immigration has very broad powers, but even then this sort of case would be difficult to make IMHO.
  - jrs235 10y ago
    >Immigration has very broad powers, but even then this sort of case would be difficult to make IMHO. I agree. But who has the time and money to defend themselves in court against the unlimited resources of the government?
    - taylodl 10y ago
      That's the purpose fulfilled by advocacy groups such as the ACLU.
      - jrs235 10y ago
        Good point. But can the defendant afford to sit in jail while things are adjudicated?
bionsuba 10y ago
that is a serious felony in the United States How so?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
What is the felony exactly?
benologist 10y ago
What is the maximum extent to which we can defend users of our software?
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Have a mode that allows users to selectively designate and delete sensitive data. Everyone has the feels over this border stuff and HN is collectively spewing the same inane questions repeatedly, but the reality is that people are more likely to get into trouble more often when spouses, employers, teachers, family, etc get to see things that weren't intended to be seen. We have airplane mode to shut off phone radios, why not a purge mode to whack marked data. On iOS, the most rudimentary level of this sort of protection is available with MDM -- you can configure a device to erase managed data when it leaves a building or campus. The device is still active and manageable, but the data is gone until it becomes compliant.

admax88q 10y ago

Phone's should have a travel mode, where it backs up all your data to the cloud and wipes the phone clean.

eridius 10y ago
Why does that need a special mode? Just back up your phone and factory reset it.
- jazoom 10y ago
  That's not the same thing, and nowhere near as helpful. Why would I want to wipe my phone every border cross if I don't have to?
  - eridius 10y ago
    admax88q said they wanted a mode where it wipes your phone. That mode is called "factory reset". If what you want is a mode that wipes your phone only when a CBP agent looks at it, as other people have stated in the comments here, you'd probably be committing some sort of crime (e.g. destruction of evidence or lying to a federal agent). The only truly safe way to cross is to not actually have your data when you cross, not to try and throw it away once you get singled out by agents.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - jazoom 10y ago
      I assume you're thinking about USA, which is a country I have no desire to visit.
      - khedoros1 10y ago
        If you aren't planning on going to the US or to whichever other countries might try something similar, then I suppose it's a moot point for you, and you don't need to worry about your phone at all. But if your home government started treating you unreasonably, you might also be interested in having a discussion about possible reactions to the new policies, right?

6t6t6t6 10y ago

Most of the information on Android phones is stored on the Cloud. Someone can factory reset their phone before crossing the border, create a new empty profile* just to show it to customs and, once they are in a "safe zone", factory-reset it again and load the good profile that will automatically download the user data and apps. * Just to make the customs agents happy, I would fill the history of the fake profile with porn and pictures of donuts.