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Since the election I've seen pretty much every major news and reference information source disparaged as "fake news" by comments like this. It begs the question

Since the election I've seen pretty much every major news and reference information source disparaged as "fake news" by comments like this. It begs the question: if every major source is untrustworthy, if it's all a chain of lies all the way down, how does anyone know anything? Can those who have seen the light please point the rest of us to the untainted source of pure truth you've cross referenced against to confirm this? It seems like there are plenty of people in the world who manage to act productively on the information they have, but maybe it's all just a big conspiracy - nobody has ever known a single fact.

gukov 10y ago
Everything becomes much clearer once you realize that everyone is for themselves, and that includes mass media who report stuff in a way that increases the clicks and the views. The majority of us have been conditioned to worry, actually worry, about stuff that we have absolutely no control nor expert knowledge. The majority of our time should be spent on worrying about ourselves, our immediate circle of people, our neighborhood, city, country, planet. In that order. Turn on the TV or open your facebook and you'll that the hierarchy is completely reversed.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Interesting ego trap you've fallen into there.
- quanticle 10y ago
  The majority of our time should be spent on worrying about ourselves, our immediate circle of people, our neighborhood, city, country, planet. In that order. In response, I'm just going to quote Martin Niemoller: First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Your approach rules out collective action on any kind of scale that can change the direction of a nation. There are always concerns at the family and local levels. What we need to understand is that sometimes concerns at the larger levels (country, planet) that outweigh our local concerns.
- MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
  I agree with you regarding the importance of thinking and acting locally, especially for the majority of people who don't realistically have the power and influence to make a difference outside of their locality. But it's a tremendously cynical and harmful to believe that "everyone is for themselves." It's just not true: there are millions if not billions of people who live much more for others than themselves. The supremacy of self-interest is not some foundational truth of social reality - it's an economic theory of human behavior which corporations and power hungry individuals want us to believe in because it props up the system of predatory capitalism that enriches them at the cost of the public good.
anigbrowl 10y ago
The more confused and uncertain people are, the easier it becomes to manipulate them. Thus we are treated to spectacles like Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas - who is ironically head of the House science and technology committee - suggesting on the floor of Congress that people should ignore the media and get their news directly from the President. It seems almost every day now I hear politicians saying things that I'd edit out from the script if I were writing a dystopian movie because they were too cheesy and crude to be good characterizations.
quanticle 10y ago
if every major source is untrustworthy, if it's all a chain of lies all the way down, how does anyone know anything? That's exactly the sort of thinking that modern autocracies (like Russia, China, Egypt, etc.) use to keep their populations pliant. They know that people see government propaganda for what it is. However, they also know that merely knowing that what the government is telling you is propaganda isn't enough to serve as a basis for popular resistance to the government. Therefore, the authorities do their best to muddy the waters, ensuring that every news source, no matter how rigorous and well-researched is tarred with the "bias" or "fake news" brush. What happens then is that people, by and large, just give up and remain content to hunker down and get on with their steadily worsening day-to-day lives, without paying attention to the large scale abuses that they're subjected to. It worries me immensely that we're seeing this pattern in the United States.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  I'm not sure that that is worse than excessive credulousness. I think it's advisable to be skeptical of the news in any source, no matter how reputable -- who are the sources? What are their motives? Is this analysis credible and does it fit with the facts presented? Even the big names get it wrong.
  - nikdaheratik 10y ago
    The entire motive for this "mainstream media is fake/lies push" to get people to ignore anything that doesn't come from them. It's exactly the same as the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt legal strategy pursued by people like SCO only you don't have the benefit of court managed discovery to force a version of the truth out in the open. "Even the big names get it wrong" isn't the same thing as "trust no one [but me]"
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      I don't think that's entirely true. Of course Trump and other mendacious characters have seized on it, but I think the general distrust and skepticism of news media is both organic and well-warranted.
StreamBright 10y ago
Lucky we have HN.

gukov 10y ago

Everything becomes much clearer once you realize that everyone is for themselves, and that includes mass media who report stuff in a way that increases the clicks and the views. The majority of us have been conditioned to worry, actually worry, about stuff that we have absolutely no control nor expert knowledge. The majority of our time should be spent on worrying about ourselves, our immediate circle of people, our neighborhood, city, country, planet. In that order. Turn on the TV or open your facebook and you'll that the hierarchy is completely reversed.

anigbrowl 10y ago
Interesting ego trap you've fallen into there.
quanticle 10y ago
The majority of our time should be spent on worrying about ourselves, our immediate circle of people, our neighborhood, city, country, planet. In that order. In response, I'm just going to quote Martin Niemoller: First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Your approach rules out collective action on any kind of scale that can change the direction of a nation. There are always concerns at the family and local levels. What we need to understand is that sometimes concerns at the larger levels (country, planet) that outweigh our local concerns.
MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
I agree with you regarding the importance of thinking and acting locally, especially for the majority of people who don't realistically have the power and influence to make a difference outside of their locality. But it's a tremendously cynical and harmful to believe that "everyone is for themselves." It's just not true: there are millions if not billions of people who live much more for others than themselves. The supremacy of self-interest is not some foundational truth of social reality - it's an economic theory of human behavior which corporations and power hungry individuals want us to believe in because it props up the system of predatory capitalism that enriches them at the cost of the public good.

anigbrowl 10y ago

The more confused and uncertain people are, the easier it becomes to manipulate them. Thus we are treated to spectacles like Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas - who is ironically head of the House science and technology committee - suggesting on the floor of Congress that people should ignore the media and get their news directly from the President. It seems almost every day now I hear politicians saying things that I'd edit out from the script if I were writing a dystopian movie because they were too cheesy and crude to be good characterizations.

quanticle 10y ago

if every major source is untrustworthy, if it's all a chain of lies all the way down, how does anyone know anything? That's exactly the sort of thinking that modern autocracies (like Russia, China, Egypt, etc.) use to keep their populations pliant. They know that people see government propaganda for what it is. However, they also know that merely knowing that what the government is telling you is propaganda isn't enough to serve as a basis for popular resistance to the government. Therefore, the authorities do their best to muddy the waters, ensuring that every news source, no matter how rigorous and well-researched is tarred with the "bias" or "fake news" brush. What happens then is that people, by and large, just give up and remain content to hunker down and get on with their steadily worsening day-to-day lives, without paying attention to the large scale abuses that they're subjected to. It worries me immensely that we're seeing this pattern in the United States.

emodendroket 10y ago
I'm not sure that that is worse than excessive credulousness. I think it's advisable to be skeptical of the news in any source, no matter how reputable -- who are the sources? What are their motives? Is this analysis credible and does it fit with the facts presented? Even the big names get it wrong.
- nikdaheratik 10y ago
  The entire motive for this "mainstream media is fake/lies push" to get people to ignore anything that doesn't come from them. It's exactly the same as the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt legal strategy pursued by people like SCO only you don't have the benefit of court managed discovery to force a version of the truth out in the open. "Even the big names get it wrong" isn't the same thing as "trust no one [but me]"
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    I don't think that's entirely true. Of course Trump and other mendacious characters have seized on it, but I think the general distrust and skepticism of news media is both organic and well-warranted.

StreamBright 10y ago

Lucky we have HN.