4 ms·

"Is this the phone you use on a day to day basis"- felony if you lie.

by psybin 10y ago

exhilaration 10y ago
Option 1: "No, I left my phone at home." Option 2: If you're at the US border and a US citizen, "Sir, I'm an American citizen and just want want to get home" -- citizens can't be blocked from re-entering at the border.
- GuiA 10y ago
  No, but they can be detained and harassed - just what happened to the fellow mentioned in the article.
- psybin 10y ago
  Option 1, why did you bring decoys? You should probably sit here in this cell for a bit while we work out what the fuck you're doing. Option 2, they can't stop you from entering but they can make you enter directly into a jail cell, or generally make your life miserable. See the owner of cock.li, who had all of his electronics seized twice.
  - unethical_ban 10y ago
    OK, what's your point? Your responses are all pretty defeatist, and definitely speculative.
    - psybin 10y ago
      I've been party to discussions like this, I know how it goes. Once you're shoved in a small room indefinitely, all of your possessions and shoes taken so you don't kill yourself, and had questions dumped on you, a lot of these cute actions people are suggesting are pretty ridiculous. A seriously stupid move would be to try something like erasing your data, or trying to mislead the offers would simple prolong the experience. You get that treatment even if you haven't done anything wrong, god knows what happens if you have.
    - rosser 10y ago
      Examples of how CBP has treated people attempting to re-enter the country is by no means "definitely speculative."
- walrus01 10y ago
  Result of option 2: "Okay sir, please come this way for an inspection of your rectum"
- hguant 10y ago
  >citizens can't be blocked from re-entering at the border. Well, sort of. They have to let you in, but you can be held more or less indefinitely if you're suspected of committing a crime, or not complying with the border agent.
- dsp1234 10y ago
  re: Option 2 Define "blocked". Because Sidd Bikkannavar's recent experience tells a different story[0]. "The document given to Bikkannavar listed a series of consequences for failure to offer information that would allow CBP to copy the contents of the device. “I didn’t really want to explore all those consequences,” he says. “It mentioned detention and seizure.”" [0] - http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkannavar-detained-cbp-phone-search-trump-travel-ban http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkann...
  - canadian_voter 10y ago
    Do you think this is the document he was handed? https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/inspection-electronic-devices-tearsheet.pdf https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/inspection... A few highlights: You may be subject to an inspection for a variety of reasons, some of which include: [...] you have been selected for a random search." You’re receiving this sheet because your electronic device(s) has been detained for further examination, which may include copying. CBP may retain documents or information relating to immigration, customs, and other enforcement matters only if such retention is consistent with the privacy and data protection standards of the system in which such information is retained. Otherwise, if after reviewing the information, there exists no probable cause to seize it, CBP will not retain any copies.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    Tech bro citizens need to intentionally travel in order to step up and volunteer to say "No" to all entreaties for their data. They have money for lawyers, and PTO for time.
- rosser 10y ago
  Citizens may, indeed, not be barred from re-entering, but there's absolutely nothing, anywhere that says we can't be made to wait unconscionably long before entry, or that we can be allowed to re-enter without our devices.
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    That constitutes de facto detention and yes, there's absolutely something that governs it. Unfortunately ICE/CBP has policies [1] in place to require the phone's password that they believe are legitimate per 8 USC § 1357(a) (3). It's likely that only a court ruling weighing the policy regarding this statute against the bill of rights would make them change. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/ice_border_search_electronic_devices.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/ice_border_search_electr...
- pfarnsworth 10y ago
  "Okay, then please give me your Facebook and Twitter usernames and passwords." If you lie, and then they do a search and find you, then you're going to be in bigger trouble.
  - taylodl 10y ago
    I don't know those passwords because I use a password management solution allowing me to use very strong gobbledygook passwords. Access to my password management solution is bio-locked on a device I don't have presently.
  - InitialLastName 10y ago
    "My account logins are only available through the password manager on my home computer"
Spooky23 10y ago
"No, officer, its the phone I carry when I travel. I worry about it getting stolen."
linkregister 10y ago
What is the felony charge? I keep seeing the word "felony" bandied about in this thread. I get it, it's a scary, attention-getting word. Is it really a charge with a minimum 1-year sentence?
- DigitalJack 10y ago
  It is a felony to lie to a federal agent.
  - donald123 10y ago
    How can they prove it's a lie? Are they tracking my day to day phone?
- linkregister 10y ago
  I ended up looking it up myself: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully— (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or (3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Nope. So what?
nisse72 10y ago
"No, it's a new one I've just bought for this trip". So what?
jschwartzi 10y ago
"Where is the USB port? I need to plug something in." "Oh, that broke off years ago. I just charge batteries in a separate charger now."

"Is this the phone you use on a day to day basis"- felony if you lie.

by psybin 10y ago

"Is this the phone you use on a day to day basis"- felony if you lie.

Option 1: "No, I left my phone at home." Option 2: If you're at the US border and a US citizen, "Sir, I'm an American citizen and just want want to get home" -- citizens can't be blocked from re-entering at the border.

GuiA 10y ago
No, but they can be detained and harassed - just what happened to the fellow mentioned in the article.
psybin 10y ago
Option 1, why did you bring decoys? You should probably sit here in this cell for a bit while we work out what the fuck you're doing. Option 2, they can't stop you from entering but they can make you enter directly into a jail cell, or generally make your life miserable. See the owner of cock.li, who had all of his electronics seized twice.
- unethical_ban 10y ago
  OK, what's your point? Your responses are all pretty defeatist, and definitely speculative.
  - psybin 10y ago
    I've been party to discussions like this, I know how it goes. Once you're shoved in a small room indefinitely, all of your possessions and shoes taken so you don't kill yourself, and had questions dumped on you, a lot of these cute actions people are suggesting are pretty ridiculous. A seriously stupid move would be to try something like erasing your data, or trying to mislead the offers would simple prolong the experience. You get that treatment even if you haven't done anything wrong, god knows what happens if you have.
  - rosser 10y ago
    Examples of how CBP has treated people attempting to re-enter the country is by no means "definitely speculative."
walrus01 10y ago
Result of option 2: "Okay sir, please come this way for an inspection of your rectum"
hguant 10y ago
>citizens can't be blocked from re-entering at the border. Well, sort of. They have to let you in, but you can be held more or less indefinitely if you're suspected of committing a crime, or not complying with the border agent.
dsp1234 10y ago
re: Option 2 Define "blocked". Because Sidd Bikkannavar's recent experience tells a different story[0]. "The document given to Bikkannavar listed a series of consequences for failure to offer information that would allow CBP to copy the contents of the device. “I didn’t really want to explore all those consequences,” he says. “It mentioned detention and seizure.”" [0] - http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkannavar-detained-cbp-phone-search-trump-travel-ban http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkann...
- canadian_voter 10y ago
  Do you think this is the document he was handed? https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/inspection-electronic-devices-tearsheet.pdf https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/inspection... A few highlights: You may be subject to an inspection for a variety of reasons, some of which include: [...] you have been selected for a random search." You’re receiving this sheet because your electronic device(s) has been detained for further examination, which may include copying. CBP may retain documents or information relating to immigration, customs, and other enforcement matters only if such retention is consistent with the privacy and data protection standards of the system in which such information is retained. Otherwise, if after reviewing the information, there exists no probable cause to seize it, CBP will not retain any copies.
- rhizome 10y ago
  Tech bro citizens need to intentionally travel in order to step up and volunteer to say "No" to all entreaties for their data. They have money for lawyers, and PTO for time.
rosser 10y ago
Citizens may, indeed, not be barred from re-entering, but there's absolutely nothing, anywhere that says we can't be made to wait unconscionably long before entry, or that we can be allowed to re-enter without our devices.
- wyldfire 10y ago
  That constitutes de facto detention and yes, there's absolutely something that governs it. Unfortunately ICE/CBP has policies [1] in place to require the phone's password that they believe are legitimate per 8 USC § 1357(a) (3). It's likely that only a court ruling weighing the policy regarding this statute against the bill of rights would make them change. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/ice_border_search_electronic_devices.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/ice_border_search_electr...
pfarnsworth 10y ago
"Okay, then please give me your Facebook and Twitter usernames and passwords." If you lie, and then they do a search and find you, then you're going to be in bigger trouble.
- taylodl 10y ago
  I don't know those passwords because I use a password management solution allowing me to use very strong gobbledygook passwords. Access to my password management solution is bio-locked on a device I don't have presently.
- InitialLastName 10y ago
  "My account logins are only available through the password manager on my home computer"

Spooky23 10y ago

"No, officer, its the phone I carry when I travel. I worry about it getting stolen."

linkregister 10y ago

What is the felony charge? I keep seeing the word "felony" bandied about in this thread. I get it, it's a scary, attention-getting word. Is it really a charge with a minimum 1-year sentence?

DigitalJack 10y ago
It is a felony to lie to a federal agent.
- donald123 10y ago
  How can they prove it's a lie? Are they tracking my day to day phone?
linkregister 10y ago
I ended up looking it up myself: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully— (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or (3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

anigbrowl 10y ago

Nope. So what?

nisse72 10y ago

"No, it's a new one I've just bought for this trip". So what?

jschwartzi 10y ago

"Where is the USB port? I need to plug something in." "Oh, that broke off years ago. I just charge batteries in a separate charger now."