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Operations always were those guys that kept complaining about "reliability" and "maintainability" and how the perfect thing that worked on my machine woke them
by CrLf 10y ago
Operations always were those guys that kept complaining about "reliability" and "maintainability" and how the perfect thing that worked on my machine woke them up in the middle of the night, and how I must bother with inconsequent things such as "packaging" and "configuration" and "dependencies." Those incompetents, glad to see them gone.
On a serious note, you are absolutely right. IT always had two opposing forces for a reason, it provided balance between change and sustainability. The big problem was lack of communication between the two sides, which "devops" was supposed to solve.
Instead, "devops" is now developers doing what they've always done, and caring for change above all like they always did, but pretending to care about the needs of services in production. I cringe when I think about all those containers where the application is continuously delivered but the bundled openssl isn't updated when vulnerabilities are found. Welcome to the brave new world.
We're moving in a no-ops direction mainly because the most vocal folks come from startups that don't last enough to see where coherent operations matter. They go under well before that. But this idea is bleeding onto companies where it does matter, and we'll see how that goes in a few years.
- johnyzee 10y agoAs a developer, absolutely. You need that kick in the ass from the grumpy old bastard who refuses to setup your queue with a max depth of 1 million, or open up the firewall between the database and the DMZ.
- CaptSpify 10y agoWe started a Devops team at work. After a year there have been 0 Ops hires, it's all Devs. I think/hope we might see this change soon. Currently there's no real penalty for poor ops. If your customer data gets hacked, there are very few actual penalties, most of the pain is in reputation. I feel like there's been a lot of pressure to have government penalties for poor security practices, especially when so many companies "need" all the user data they can get their hands on.
- jedberg 10y ago> After a year there have been 0 Ops hires, it's all Devs. You say that like it's a bad thing. If you want DevOps to be successful, you don't hire a "DevOps team". You hire a team of devs to make ops tools that are so easy to use that all the other devs can manage their own ops. The idea is that doing "good ops" is so easy that everyone in the company does it.
- bigiain 10y agoYou do need at least someone who really knows what "ops tools" need to do, someone with sufficient experience to know the difference between "good ops" and "the first idea some non-ops experience developer had that looked like it solved the problem on his local machine"...
- jedberg 10y agoSure. But you can usually find a Dev who used to do ops that can fill that role.
- bigiain 10y agoFrom my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, an old-school sysadmin (who's likely moved into dev for the better paycheque) is often _way_ better at filling that role thad a more dev oriented person who's done some devops in the past. In my experience, "good ops" people are the ones with lots of war stories to tell of disasters or narrowly averted disasters either of their own of of friend/colleagues they hang out with. It's a profession who's lessons seem to be best-taught by spectacular failures and heroic recovery efforts, rather than college courses, vendor/consultant training, or "industry best practices" documents...