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The article also pointed out that pages that would otherwise work fine on a PC were borked or had slow performance. This is not the 1-to-1 flash support I think

by Timmy_C 16y ago

The article also pointed out that pages that would otherwise work fine on a PC were borked or had slow performance. This is not the 1-to-1 flash support I think users are expecting.

stcredzero 16y ago
Two hours of Flash = 40% battery drain. That's still a bit high. Watch a movie on the plane, play a game or two, and you land with a halfway drained battery. Understandable why Flash might be excluded. This level of performance is "acceptable" for most of the industry but not up to the seamless level Apple strives for.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  From Apple on iPhone battery life: "5 hours of Internet use on 3G" That level of performance is acceptable for Apple.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    About twice as long as that in WiFi. How long would Flash 10.1 play over WiFi?
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      Your contention was 2 hours and 40% was outside Apple's standards. I merely demonstrated that it was, in fact, within Apple's standards, as demonstrated by their own stats. More importantly, this demonstrates that Flash doesn't kill battery life as propose by Jobs. 5 hours of heavy web usage of heavy flash sites doesn't sound unreasonable.
      - stcredzero 16y ago
        Nope. To do that, you'd have to talk about performance strictly under 3G, or you'd have to talk about use under conditions like onboard a plane. There should be different expectations for mobile use. 3G use is already a drain, and you're asking to add another drain on top of that. The question to ask, is how would Flash over 3G do? If we're down to just a few hours of battery life, it doesn't sound attractive anymore.
        jasonlotito 16y ago
        I disagree. I've already shown that 5 hours of use is acceptable in Apple's world. On top of this, 3G isn't the only available connection. The iPod is completely non-3G, and the iPad has a non-3G variant working just on wireless. Apple's contention was that Flash would destroy mobile batteries. This is clearly not the case. Look at it this way: With Flash, the battery life is 5 hours. With 3G, the battery life is 5 hours. Yes, on 3G, the battery life might be worse, considering you are using both 3G and Flash. But then, where do you draw the line? If 5 hours is acceptable battery life for 3G, if I don't have 3G, could I have Flash and get the same battery life? Finally, that's 5 hours of 3G browsing the internet. Is that 5 hours of streaming video content? I don't know, the website doesn't say. However, the Wired article makes remarks this is party what he was doing, streaming flash videos over a wireless connection. Hopefully that explains it better. Flash clearly doesn't kill battery life. At least no more than 3G does. I think Apple's point of view is partly that 3G offers something you couldn't get otherwise, whereas Flash replicates things already available on the iPhone/iPad platform. Therefore, 3G battery life issues are acceptable, where as, for Apple, Flash is not. And, you can't offer Flash on non-3G variants, because then you know people would want it on the 3G variants.
        glhaynes 16y ago
        You're saying that Flash "clearly doesn't kill battery life" but then go on to say it's no worse than 3G... well, yeah, but lots of people have complained about 3G's effect on battery life, and much of the time both features will be used at the same time so the effect on battery life is "stacked". And keep in mind how much Flash you'll be running "unintentionally" doing just normal browsing (on 3G or not) in the form of ads and the like. Flash doesn't only come into play when you're playing Farmville. So this is something that affects a lot of browsing. On that note: how does backgrounding work in Flash Player 10.1? Can I play Flash-streamed audio in the background while I browse other pages (via "tabs") or use other apps? If not, that's one more plus for native apps over in-browser Flash. But if so, what happens if I have 5 different pages open, each with a couple of Flash ads -- do they keep executing in the background?
        16y ago
- joubert 16y ago
  are you allowed to have your phone switched on on the plane?
  - azim 16y ago
    With the exception of takeoff and landing, electronic devices are generally permitted in flight. The radio can't be switched on, but many smart phones including the iPhone have an "Airplane Mode" which turns the radios off.
    - joubert 16y ago
      Some airlines do not allow cell phones in flight/airplane mode.
- spot 16y ago
  frankly i don't care about hours of continuous use. what i care about is that i can look up a restaurant and read their hours and menu. it takes 2 minutes. the iphone can't do it.

by Timmy_C 16y ago

The article also pointed out that pages that would otherwise work fine on a PC were borked or had slow performance. This is not the 1-to-1 flash support I think users are expecting.

stcredzero 16y ago

Two hours of Flash = 40% battery drain. That's still a bit high. Watch a movie on the plane, play a game or two, and you land with a halfway drained battery. Understandable why Flash might be excluded. This level of performance is "acceptable" for most of the industry but not up to the seamless level Apple strives for.

jasonlotito 16y ago
From Apple on iPhone battery life: "5 hours of Internet use on 3G" That level of performance is acceptable for Apple.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  About twice as long as that in WiFi. How long would Flash 10.1 play over WiFi?
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    Your contention was 2 hours and 40% was outside Apple's standards. I merely demonstrated that it was, in fact, within Apple's standards, as demonstrated by their own stats. More importantly, this demonstrates that Flash doesn't kill battery life as propose by Jobs. 5 hours of heavy web usage of heavy flash sites doesn't sound unreasonable.
    - stcredzero 16y ago
      Nope. To do that, you'd have to talk about performance strictly under 3G, or you'd have to talk about use under conditions like onboard a plane. There should be different expectations for mobile use. 3G use is already a drain, and you're asking to add another drain on top of that. The question to ask, is how would Flash over 3G do? If we're down to just a few hours of battery life, it doesn't sound attractive anymore.
      - jasonlotito 16y ago
        I disagree. I've already shown that 5 hours of use is acceptable in Apple's world. On top of this, 3G isn't the only available connection. The iPod is completely non-3G, and the iPad has a non-3G variant working just on wireless. Apple's contention was that Flash would destroy mobile batteries. This is clearly not the case. Look at it this way: With Flash, the battery life is 5 hours. With 3G, the battery life is 5 hours. Yes, on 3G, the battery life might be worse, considering you are using both 3G and Flash. But then, where do you draw the line? If 5 hours is acceptable battery life for 3G, if I don't have 3G, could I have Flash and get the same battery life? Finally, that's 5 hours of 3G browsing the internet. Is that 5 hours of streaming video content? I don't know, the website doesn't say. However, the Wired article makes remarks this is party what he was doing, streaming flash videos over a wireless connection. Hopefully that explains it better. Flash clearly doesn't kill battery life. At least no more than 3G does. I think Apple's point of view is partly that 3G offers something you couldn't get otherwise, whereas Flash replicates things already available on the iPhone/iPad platform. Therefore, 3G battery life issues are acceptable, where as, for Apple, Flash is not. And, you can't offer Flash on non-3G variants, because then you know people would want it on the 3G variants.
        glhaynes 16y ago
        You're saying that Flash "clearly doesn't kill battery life" but then go on to say it's no worse than 3G... well, yeah, but lots of people have complained about 3G's effect on battery life, and much of the time both features will be used at the same time so the effect on battery life is "stacked". And keep in mind how much Flash you'll be running "unintentionally" doing just normal browsing (on 3G or not) in the form of ads and the like. Flash doesn't only come into play when you're playing Farmville. So this is something that affects a lot of browsing. On that note: how does backgrounding work in Flash Player 10.1? Can I play Flash-streamed audio in the background while I browse other pages (via "tabs") or use other apps? If not, that's one more plus for native apps over in-browser Flash. But if so, what happens if I have 5 different pages open, each with a couple of Flash ads -- do they keep executing in the background?
        16y ago
joubert 16y ago
are you allowed to have your phone switched on on the plane?
- azim 16y ago
  With the exception of takeoff and landing, electronic devices are generally permitted in flight. The radio can't be switched on, but many smart phones including the iPhone have an "Airplane Mode" which turns the radios off.
  - joubert 16y ago
    Some airlines do not allow cell phones in flight/airplane mode.
spot 16y ago
frankly i don't care about hours of continuous use. what i care about is that i can look up a restaurant and read their hours and menu. it takes 2 minutes. the iphone can't do it.