4 ms·

Yeah that sounds like the perfect mix of generation technologies. Only thing missing is pumped hydro storage for some of those GWh days.

pjc50 10y ago
Pumped hydro requires very specific geography to make it viable, which is why it's present in so few places. That's why so many people are investigating other storage systems: batteries, compressed air, flywheels, etc.
- Retric 10y ago
  You can shift electricity a thousand+ miles with minimal losses. Outside of small islands the real limitation is political borders. You can easily used pumped hydro on any major landmass, but ideal locations are often across a border which very closely ties your infrastructure with another country. PS: The Rio Madeira transmission link in Brazil, with an overhead length of 2,385km, is the world's longest power transmission line. The geometry get's complex as you can effectively sift power from location A to D by offsetting the direction you send power from intermediary production at B and C.
  - takk309 10y ago
    I was under the impression that line losses were rather high, until I did a quick bit of research and found that they are at around 5 to 6% nation wide [1]. At those levels, it can easily make sense to transmit the power to a location that has better storage. [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3
  - mcguire 10y ago
    The real limitation is mostly technical: dynamically matching supply and demand when some or most of your supplies' outputs are directly controllable is a hard problem in a large, complicated, distributed grid.
- nickff 10y ago
  Compressed air is probably one of the worst possible ways to store energy, because you cannot achieve more than a low-single digit percent efficiency. Thermodynamics is not your friend when compressing and decompressing air.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/6324034/prod21323243995265.ecos2011_paper%5B1%5D.pdf http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/6324034/prod21323243995265.ecos201... claims 29-43%, which still isn't great but better than single digits.
- rmc 10y ago
  The highest point in Denmark is ~170m high.

pjc50 10y ago

Pumped hydro requires very specific geography to make it viable, which is why it's present in so few places. That's why so many people are investigating other storage systems: batteries, compressed air, flywheels, etc.

Retric 10y ago
You can shift electricity a thousand+ miles with minimal losses. Outside of small islands the real limitation is political borders. You can easily used pumped hydro on any major landmass, but ideal locations are often across a border which very closely ties your infrastructure with another country. PS: The Rio Madeira transmission link in Brazil, with an overhead length of 2,385km, is the world's longest power transmission line. The geometry get's complex as you can effectively sift power from location A to D by offsetting the direction you send power from intermediary production at B and C.
- takk309 10y ago
  I was under the impression that line losses were rather high, until I did a quick bit of research and found that they are at around 5 to 6% nation wide [1]. At those levels, it can easily make sense to transmit the power to a location that has better storage. [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3
- mcguire 10y ago
  The real limitation is mostly technical: dynamically matching supply and demand when some or most of your supplies' outputs are directly controllable is a hard problem in a large, complicated, distributed grid.
nickff 10y ago
Compressed air is probably one of the worst possible ways to store energy, because you cannot achieve more than a low-single digit percent efficiency. Thermodynamics is not your friend when compressing and decompressing air.
- pjc50 10y ago
  http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/6324034/prod21323243995265.ecos2011_paper%5B1%5D.pdf http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/6324034/prod21323243995265.ecos201... claims 29-43%, which still isn't great but better than single digits.
rmc 10y ago
The highest point in Denmark is ~170m high.