6 ms·

I work with Linux professionally and generally like it as a server solution, and also as a developer, but if I would be a city mayor, I would not switch to it f

by greyman 10y ago

I work with Linux professionally and generally like it as a server solution, and also as a developer, but if I would be a city mayor, I would not switch to it from Windows in the first place, unless at least the country government would do such a step first. > In fact, although the proposal associates MS Office document formats with the “industry standard” concept, it should be clear that all MS Office documents are proprietary and obfuscated, and therefore inappropriate for interoperability. Sorry, but this is utter BS. MS Office is a de facto standard, and LO is not compatible with it - it can't correctly open more complex MS Office documents. I should know, since I periodically evaluate it. So the reality is, that MS Office ensures much greater interoperability as LO. Or maybe I am just missing something and we are talking only about server solutions? For example - mayor secretary receives a document from some government agency, in docx format, and LO can't correctly open it. Now what is the fallback solution?

Beltiras 10y ago
You are dumping problems related to MS (well known) monopolistic behaviour. Office format has been notoriously hard to replicate (on purpose). That is not a failing in Open Source, it is a failing of Microsoft. I realize that businesses must run daily operations and that requires them to bite the bullet and pay the "Microsoft tax". A municipality should think a bit about if some operational problems have a price tag of 90 million euros annually.
- greyman 10y ago
  Yes, you are right, and it is good that they though about that and tried the alternative. But I still think the issue of LO not able to read MS documents is a real problem. Like for example my sister. Her husband works for Redhat so he enthusiastically installed Linux on her notebook, LO and everything. She worked as a professional writer, and it was a real struggle... some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them... then spell-checker wasn't as good as in MS Word (non-English language), etc. The cost of this solution was quite high, and she eventually gave up and installed Windows. I am not trying to trash Linux or LO, it would be great to have open-source alternatives to everything, but in certain areas (Office, Adobe products, etc), such alternative doesn't exists and fighting against reality doesn't make it.
  - filomeno 10y ago
    > some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them... I like that! I send you a document you can't open: your fault. You send me a document I can't open: your fault too.
    - scholia 10y ago
      That's inevitable when you're going against standard practice in the industry, and refusing to fit in with everybody else. Try the same thing in any other industry and you'll get the same result. "You created the problem: you deal with it."
  - scholia 10y ago
    > some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them Which is survivable if your time has no value. If you're paying people serious wages to do this stuff, the costs are dramatically higher than just buying Windows and Office. When I was in the full-time editing business, sending me unreadable documents more than once would not be a good way to get further commissions.
    - scholia 10y ago
      Specifically, someone on $50,000 a year is earning roughly $25 per hour. Putting them through the painful time-wasting problems of dangerously semi-compatible software is a huge waste of money. Office 365 easily pays for itself in saving a few minutes per day.
- misnome 10y ago
  > (on purpose) Any evidence for this? I specifically remember one article talking about Excel's file format that was engineered in a way as to run on extremely resource-limited computers - those available when office was first released. Any complexities had to be built on top of that legacy base, and be backwards compatible. That seems to more than explain the file-format complexity, without unsubstantiated allegations of deliberate obfuscation.
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- deleted 10y ago
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lima 10y ago
> LO is not compatible with it - it can't correctly open more complex MS Office documents. I should know, since I periodically evaluate it. When was the last time? Got much better with the last release.
- misnome 10y ago
  I tried to fill out a job application form last month. Got the latest OO and Libreoffice, the document was completely messed up - repeated sections, some parts out of order. Filed a bug, then bought a 365 subscription. It was a .doc, but this is still used in real life.
  - lima 10y ago
    The LO team would love to get a copy of that document, if possible.
    - misnome 10y ago
      > Filed a bug They do.
tinus_hn 10y ago
> mayor secretary receives a document from some government agency, in docx format, and LO can't correctly open it. Yeah that never happens when upgrading Microsoft Office..
omouse 10y ago
So you're suggesting that a city government should continue to support and basically aid and abet the monopoly that Microsoft has in wordprocessing and spreadsheets? That sounds like you don't like the free market.
9mit3t2m9h9a 10y ago
>MS Office is a de facto standard, and LO is not compatible with it Neither is a different installation of MS Office.
- scholia 10y ago
  Oddly enough, I regularly use three versions of Office -- 2007, 2010 and 2016 -- with zero problems.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
> For example - mayor secretary receives a document from some government agency, in docx format, and LO can't correctly open it. Now what is the fallback solution? Yeah, what do you think could be the fallback solution if one government agency sends a document to another government agency in a secret language, telling them that they have to pay the only company that knows that secret language (and that they paid to translate it into that language) to obtain a translation in a language they can read? Any ideas what possibly could be the solution in this scenario?

by greyman 10y ago

Beltiras 10y ago

You are dumping problems related to MS (well known) monopolistic behaviour. Office format has been notoriously hard to replicate (on purpose). That is not a failing in Open Source, it is a failing of Microsoft. I realize that businesses must run daily operations and that requires them to bite the bullet and pay the "Microsoft tax". A municipality should think a bit about if some operational problems have a price tag of 90 million euros annually.

greyman 10y ago
Yes, you are right, and it is good that they though about that and tried the alternative. But I still think the issue of LO not able to read MS documents is a real problem. Like for example my sister. Her husband works for Redhat so he enthusiastically installed Linux on her notebook, LO and everything. She worked as a professional writer, and it was a real struggle... some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them... then spell-checker wasn't as good as in MS Word (non-English language), etc. The cost of this solution was quite high, and she eventually gave up and installed Windows. I am not trying to trash Linux or LO, it would be great to have open-source alternatives to everything, but in certain areas (Office, Adobe products, etc), such alternative doesn't exists and fighting against reality doesn't make it.
- filomeno 10y ago
  > some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them... I like that! I send you a document you can't open: your fault. You send me a document I can't open: your fault too.
  - scholia 10y ago
    That's inevitable when you're going against standard practice in the industry, and refusing to fit in with everybody else. Try the same thing in any other industry and you'll get the same result. "You created the problem: you deal with it."
- scholia 10y ago
  > some documents she received wasn't readable, then they couldn't read some document she sent them Which is survivable if your time has no value. If you're paying people serious wages to do this stuff, the costs are dramatically higher than just buying Windows and Office. When I was in the full-time editing business, sending me unreadable documents more than once would not be a good way to get further commissions.
  - scholia 10y ago
    Specifically, someone on $50,000 a year is earning roughly $25 per hour. Putting them through the painful time-wasting problems of dangerously semi-compatible software is a huge waste of money. Office 365 easily pays for itself in saving a few minutes per day.
misnome 10y ago
> (on purpose) Any evidence for this? I specifically remember one article talking about Excel's file format that was engineered in a way as to run on extremely resource-limited computers - those available when office was first released. Any complexities had to be built on top of that legacy base, and be backwards compatible. That seems to more than explain the file-format complexity, without unsubstantiated allegations of deliberate obfuscation.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

lima 10y ago

> LO is not compatible with it - it can't correctly open more complex MS Office documents. I should know, since I periodically evaluate it. When was the last time? Got much better with the last release.

misnome 10y ago
I tried to fill out a job application form last month. Got the latest OO and Libreoffice, the document was completely messed up - repeated sections, some parts out of order. Filed a bug, then bought a 365 subscription. It was a .doc, but this is still used in real life.
- lima 10y ago
  The LO team would love to get a copy of that document, if possible.
  - misnome 10y ago
    > Filed a bug They do.

tinus_hn 10y ago

> mayor secretary receives a document from some government agency, in docx format, and LO can't correctly open it. Yeah that never happens when upgrading Microsoft Office..

omouse 10y ago

So you're suggesting that a city government should continue to support and basically aid and abet the monopoly that Microsoft has in wordprocessing and spreadsheets? That sounds like you don't like the free market.

9mit3t2m9h9a 10y ago

>MS Office is a de facto standard, and LO is not compatible with it Neither is a different installation of MS Office.

scholia 10y ago
Oddly enough, I regularly use three versions of Office -- 2007, 2010 and 2016 -- with zero problems.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago

> For example - mayor secretary receives a document from some government agency, in docx format, and LO can't correctly open it. Now what is the fallback solution? Yeah, what do you think could be the fallback solution if one government agency sends a document to another government agency in a secret language, telling them that they have to pay the only company that knows that secret language (and that they paid to translate it into that language) to obtain a translation in a language they can read? Any ideas what possibly could be the solution in this scenario?