5 ms·

Don't be silly, use Smalltalk !

dragonbonheur 10y ago
I guess you didn't really read anything of what I wrote, just saw BASIC and went in high priest mode. How do you even ship an executable with smalltalk? With a 30 megabyte (minimum) virtual machine and the whole interpreter? Now that's silly.
- brudgers 10y ago
  If I download a 30MB file it will take 8 seconds. If I put it on my thumbdrive, the drive will have 99.9% free space. 30MB is a webpage these days. Not saying it is good. Just saying it is.
  - dragonbonheur 10y ago
    You'd be wasting a lot of lifetimes if every kid learning a programming language wasted your minimum of 8 seconds to download a runtime to run something as simple as hello world. A lot of people in developing countries don't have your luxury of bandwidth either. And besides, how many games on Steam are written in smalltalk? How much software running on Linux? So little in the best case scenario that nobody cares
    - brudgers 10y ago
      I agree a no bandwidth premise challenges a many assumptions -- I actually started with the thumb drive bit (even available in Sweden from whence the question comes) -- particularly assumptions about content delivery. Anyway, I'm not advocating Smalltalk even if I think it's a good idea to seriously consider old technologies. My thoughts were more along the lines of '30MB' as of the same logical form as that time I thought, '180 KiloBytes! Why would I ever need two floppy drives?'
      - dragonbonheur 10y ago
        What the hell am I doing arguing with a high priest? You guys need more than thinking out of the box, you need to think out of the Valley. High priests are the reason why software is bloated and sucks nowadays.
        brudgers 10y ago
        If by 'valley' you mean the Chattahoochee valley -- which ain't much of a valley but Valley, Alabama is named after it -- then I'll cop a plea since Valley ain't that far away. Old habits die hard and a few years ago, my BASIC background showed its head. I was writing a kludgomatic and the example code for the key library call needed to make it work allocated an array[10000] and I was like, that will use up all the memory and be slow. It didn't and it wasn't because of Moore's Law type effects. Last year I was fooling around with RPi's and I bought a box of ten 16GB microSD's for about $50. That's 160GB of solid state storage for about what I paid for my first box of 3.5" DD DS disks. Worrying about software bloat is a nice problem to have. It means one has options...and compute and leisure and is willing to give up YouTube and NetFlix

I guess you didn't really read anything of what I wrote, just saw BASIC and went in high priest mode. How do you even ship an executable with smalltalk? With a 30 megabyte (minimum) virtual machine and the whole interpreter? Now that's silly.

brudgers 10y ago
If I download a 30MB file it will take 8 seconds. If I put it on my thumbdrive, the drive will have 99.9% free space. 30MB is a webpage these days. Not saying it is good. Just saying it is.
- dragonbonheur 10y ago
  You'd be wasting a lot of lifetimes if every kid learning a programming language wasted your minimum of 8 seconds to download a runtime to run something as simple as hello world. A lot of people in developing countries don't have your luxury of bandwidth either. And besides, how many games on Steam are written in smalltalk? How much software running on Linux? So little in the best case scenario that nobody cares
  - brudgers 10y ago
    I agree a no bandwidth premise challenges a many assumptions -- I actually started with the thumb drive bit (even available in Sweden from whence the question comes) -- particularly assumptions about content delivery. Anyway, I'm not advocating Smalltalk even if I think it's a good idea to seriously consider old technologies. My thoughts were more along the lines of '30MB' as of the same logical form as that time I thought, '180 KiloBytes! Why would I ever need two floppy drives?'
    - dragonbonheur 10y ago
      What the hell am I doing arguing with a high priest? You guys need more than thinking out of the box, you need to think out of the Valley. High priests are the reason why software is bloated and sucks nowadays.
      - brudgers 10y ago
        If by 'valley' you mean the Chattahoochee valley -- which ain't much of a valley but Valley, Alabama is named after it -- then I'll cop a plea since Valley ain't that far away. Old habits die hard and a few years ago, my BASIC background showed its head. I was writing a kludgomatic and the example code for the key library call needed to make it work allocated an array[10000] and I was like, that will use up all the memory and be slow. It didn't and it wasn't because of Moore's Law type effects. Last year I was fooling around with RPi's and I bought a box of ten 16GB microSD's for about $50. That's 160GB of solid state storage for about what I paid for my first box of 3.5" DD DS disks. Worrying about software bloat is a nice problem to have. It means one has options...and compute and leisure and is willing to give up YouTube and NetFlix