3 ms·

Was .NET part of the anti-competitive ploy to run Java into the ground ? Cheers.

by the-dude 10y ago

softbuilder 10y ago
I believe you're thinking of J++.
- bad_user 10y ago
  .NET is actually a continuation of J++, which was Microsoft's Java implementation plus their extensions, like delegates, which were also introduced in .NET To be honest, I don't think the engineers had any ploy to "run Java into the ground", even though the sale folks probably thought about it. They did do their usual "embrace, extend" thing. And it was sort of anti-competitive, but then again the JCP isn't a real standards body given the TCK has to be licensed from Sun/Oracle with whatever conditions they feel like, which is why Apache Harmony didn't survive. And so I have no interest in defending the moves of Sun wanting to defend what was at that point a completely proprietary and non-standard platform.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Kind of. "COM+ Runtime" https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net-generics-research-project-history-the-msr-white-paper-from-mid-1999/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net...
partycoder 10y ago
Microsoft embraced Java at first. There was a moment in which there was a Microsoft JVM. But Sun Microsystems did not like how Microsoft was engaging Java, so they had a legal battle from 1997 to 2001. Microsoft licensed some patents from Sun, and diverted its effort into .NET. C# 1.0 was very much like Java, but over time it evolved into a completely different language focused on market demands.
- Scuds 10y ago
  2.0 which introduced generics (and the partial keyword. code behinds yeesh) was when it REALLY took off.
  - FLGMwt 10y ago
    Then lambdas and async and pattern matching, oh my!
pjmlp 10y ago
That was J++, .NET was the implementation of COM+ Runtime ideas, which now have gotten back to the roots with .NET Native/UWP and its COM architecture. "COM+ Runtime" https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net-generics-research-project-history-the-msr-white-paper-from-mid-1999/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net...
- rpeden 10y ago
  There was also J#, though it wasn't really anticompetitive. Maybe it was just the opposite, now that I think about it. Microsoft obviously felt that .NET, C#, and the CLR were viable competitors to Java and the JVM, and offered J# as a sort of on-ramp from the Java cowpath to the .NET expressway. That's not meant as a knock against the Java world now; I just remember .NET being a pleasant place to be back in those days.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    J# was only seen as a way to port Java into C#. I doubt anyone gave it any other use, in fact it was a .NET 1.x language only.

Was .NET part of the anti-competitive ploy to run Java into the ground ? Cheers.

softbuilder 10y ago

I believe you're thinking of J++.

bad_user 10y ago
.NET is actually a continuation of J++, which was Microsoft's Java implementation plus their extensions, like delegates, which were also introduced in .NET To be honest, I don't think the engineers had any ploy to "run Java into the ground", even though the sale folks probably thought about it. They did do their usual "embrace, extend" thing. And it was sort of anti-competitive, but then again the JCP isn't a real standards body given the TCK has to be licensed from Sun/Oracle with whatever conditions they feel like, which is why Apache Harmony didn't survive. And so I have no interest in defending the moves of Sun wanting to defend what was at that point a completely proprietary and non-standard platform.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Kind of. "COM+ Runtime" https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net-generics-research-project-history-the-msr-white-paper-from-mid-1999/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net...

partycoder 10y ago

Microsoft embraced Java at first. There was a moment in which there was a Microsoft JVM. But Sun Microsystems did not like how Microsoft was engaging Java, so they had a legal battle from 1997 to 2001. Microsoft licensed some patents from Sun, and diverted its effort into .NET. C# 1.0 was very much like Java, but over time it evolved into a completely different language focused on market demands.

Scuds 10y ago
2.0 which introduced generics (and the partial keyword. code behinds yeesh) was when it REALLY took off.
- FLGMwt 10y ago
  Then lambdas and async and pattern matching, oh my!

pjmlp 10y ago

That was J++, .NET was the implementation of COM+ Runtime ideas, which now have gotten back to the roots with .NET Native/UWP and its COM architecture. "COM+ Runtime" https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net-generics-research-project-history-the-msr-white-paper-from-mid-1999/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net...

rpeden 10y ago
There was also J#, though it wasn't really anticompetitive. Maybe it was just the opposite, now that I think about it. Microsoft obviously felt that .NET, C#, and the CLR were viable competitors to Java and the JVM, and offered J# as a sort of on-ramp from the Java cowpath to the .NET expressway. That's not meant as a knock against the Java world now; I just remember .NET being a pleasant place to be back in those days.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  J# was only seen as a way to port Java into C#. I doubt anyone gave it any other use, in fact it was a .NET 1.x language only.