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Not only that, but a fair number of them are actually true statements (e.g. People have names). I can only assume someone got overzealous trying to prevent assu
by benchaney 10y ago
Not only that, but a fair number of them are actually true statements (e.g. People have names). I can only assume someone got overzealous trying to prevent assumptions about other cultures, but I still don't really understand the train of though that lead to their inclusion.
- stevula 10y agoIt is fairly common for newborn babies not to have names, which can cause issues with medical record systems. In most cases a workaround is used, such as "Baby {{Lastname}}". In the US, I suppose, the baby would at least have a last name, so not entirely nameless.
- eli 10y agoAgree with everything except the last name part. A baby isn't born with a last name and there's no obligation for a baby to have the same last name as either parent. Our daughter was "Baby Girl <Mother's Last Name>" in the EMR system for a few days even though no part of that was her name and that isn't the last name she ended up with.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- DashRattlesnake 10y agoThat's also an example where trying to model the strict reality (having no known name) might be worse than just using a workaround in a simpler model. As long as system acknowledges that different people can have the same name and duplicate profiles may be found and need to be merged, John/Jane Doe and Baby <Lastname> seem perfectly fine to me.
- eli 10y agoOnly if you're sure you can treat the unnamed the same as the named. If there's logic anywhere in the system that treats the unnamed babies differently (e.g. delaying filing for a birth certificate) that would be a problem if and when someone actually does want their child's first name to be "Baby"
- ska 10y agoHow do you think having an identity separate from name make things worse? Any concrete examples?
- sli 10y ago> That's also an example where trying to model the strict reality (having no known name) might be worse than just using a workaround in a simpler model. A bit of an orthogonal example to the thread, but I ran into an issue like that, with a solution that worked just like you described. I was using msgpack in Python 3 to send data to the browser in JSON format. msgpack in Python 3 decodes into bytes, as (hopefully) expected by Python 3 users. Except the data was somewhat arbitrary in terms of how it was organized or what was included (but was predictable in type), so decoding it was a bit of a pain. The problem of course was that my strings were wrapped in b'', and that was being sent to the browser, causing the JSON parsing in the browser to fail. My first two attempts were recursive algorithms that would try and decode strings and skip everything else (we only worked with strings and numbers, or lists of strings and numbers, hence "predictable in type"). Both times it almost worked, but didn't. Even with predictable types of data, I had to try and cover a number of edge cases. The solution that ended up working 100% of the time in my particular case was just using regex to remove the occurrences of b'' from a string version the object, then send that as JSON. Looked like an ugly hack, and probably was, but it damn sure worked like a charm. It was much easier to just ensure I built a valid dictionary before encoding it with msgpack rather than try and "properly" decode all the strings after decoding it with msgpack.
- ptx 10y agoYou could subclass the json.JSONEncoder class (and implement the default method) to decode bytes objects, along the lines of the example in the documentation: https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/json.html https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/json.html
- cgriswald 10y agoDoes the baby have a last name, though? Think about a baby born to parents with different last names. The baby may take the father's last name, the mother's last name, one of at least two different hyphenations, no last name (maybe they think their child will be famous), or an arbitrary last name they make up. And that's assuming they're just plain vanilla "Americans" with no strong ethnic reason for an alternate naming scheme...
- ycombobreaker 10y agoIt's a placeholder until a name is chosen. It is temporary and expected to be revised. At the hospital I know, the mother's (who carried the baby) full name is selected, e.g. "Baby Jane Doe." Notice no name transformation is required so it generalizes. I don't know what is used in the case of a surrogate mother. If parents get offended by this straightforward default-naming algorithm, the recommended workaround is to name the baby.
- Piskvorrr 10y agoSo, now your little ad-hoc substitute-naming scheme has legal ramifications. Good luck getting this to play along with actual letter of the law (at $location1, not to mention $anotherlocation2).
- ycombobreaker 10y agoIt's not my naming scheme, it's what the hospital I know uses. Can you explain the legal ramifications you are concerned about? The baby does not receive a SSN until it is named by the parents. If the parents were to die before the baby is named, the temporary name used "in the system" doesn't magically become a legal name.
- Piskvorrr 10y agoSorry, I have misunderstood as "this is what I would do." I suppose that's a process descended from the local legal framework, then - as you say, SSN is assigned after name, and the name has some flag meaning "temporary". I would assume there's some handling in place for that eventuality. (I have seen a different protocol: state ID number is assigned after birth, parents choose name independently of the process, the two are only linked ex post)
- EvilTerran 10y agoI suppose that could be referring to "John/Jane Doe" situations - when someone turns up who may have a name, but you have no way of ascertaining it (because they're not carrying ID, and are unresponsive, dead, or otherwise unable to tell you themselves). Not really a relevant concern for most programming situations, but it could catch you out if you're writing software for medical/police reports, for instance. Or, for a rarer subcase where the person genuinely has no name at all - consider "feral children": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child
- ska 10y agoThis is specific case of the more general flaw in a lot of design work - "I have a collection of things, these things always have an X with property Y, so I'll just organize/key them that way". This works great until property Y is violated... or until you run into one without "an X". Most times you are better off to just start with unique identifiers and avoid breaking logic.
- Sammi 10y agoThe most common example is actually scandinavian unbabtised babies. It's quite common to keep the name secret until the big reveal in the church when the child is several months old. I believe that here in denmark you aren't required by law to submit a name until the child is 6 months old.
- bryanrasmussen 10y agoyou can go past 6 months without naming your child but you are fined, I can't remember at which point the child will be given a name if you won't provide one. Also of course if you give your child a name that is not recognized as a name by the name register there is a process for okaying that name, so in that case your child can have a name in the family but not an official governmental name yet.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- m3rc 10y agoThe assumption you've just made is exactly why the list of falsehoods needs to exist.
- gydfi 10y agoName one person who doesn't have a name.
- gotthemwmds 10y agoWell I'm not trying to troll you or anything but my friends haven't named their 2 day old baby yet. That's a person, right?
- Piskvorrr 10y agoAnd apparently you can, in some jurisdictions, re-name your baby within a few days of birth, replacing the original name (it's not even considered a rename - it voids the previous naming, as if it had never happened).
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- benchaney 10y agoWhat assumption are you referring to?
- darfs 10y agoArtist-Names are possible. In germany, atleast, you can carry it on your Passport with ur real Name.