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We already are cyborgs. We just haven't implanted our augments yet, and haven't come up with a direct neural bus. We communicate with them via touch and sight

We already are cyborgs. We just haven't implanted our augments yet, and haven't come up with a direct neural bus. We communicate with them via touch and sight instead. Which of the following transitions is more world-shaking? 1) Going from being a plain old human to a human with a smartphone, internet access practically anywhere. 2) Implanting the functionality of that phone in our bodies.

akerro 10y ago
>2) Implanting the functionality of that phone in our bodies. For everyone! For free!* * Sponsored by Google, Facebook, NSA, Twitter, Bayern. Terms and conditions apply ask your local dealer for more info.
rubber_duck 10y ago
1 is easily reversible and isolated, 2 not so much. It's realistic and highly probably that someone with a little effort could hack my phone and cause it to malfunction in various ways. I account for that in the way I use it. There is no chance in hell I'm implanting something like that in my body. And that's not even touching on bugs, regular malfunction and shitty standards we have in SW industry for reliability and maintenance - good luck being stuck with an implant from corp X that got acquired and is no longer supporting it.
- ageofwant 10y ago
  The pervasive nanite cloud that you breathe and drink and eat will take care of dissidents like you. Not that that is likely as NET integration starts moments after conception in the sea of nanobots that permeates your mothers's womb.
- K0SM0S 10y ago
  > someone with a little effort could hack my phone and cause it to malfunction in various ways Even with the best of intents, the actual makers of said phone (and apps) sometimes end up causing it to malfunction in various ways... Let that sink in for a minute. Admittedly, bio-implants would probably fall under much higher reliability standards than mere external electronics, including user control of the hardware and software. But things like infrastructure (e.g. networks), everything "ambient" to the end device that's required for a true AR paradigm to exist, cannot be accelerated by wishful thinking (e.g. bandwidth, business model of currently leading companies, etc.) While it's crucial that we begin these ethical debates early on, preferably before it actually happens let alone scales, I think we're still a decently big "last-mile"away from an actual consumer-tsunami the likes of PCs or smartphones. Thinking 5 years for early adopter/high end devices, twice that for infra to follow and enable consumer-grade scaling. By that time, 2020-25-ish, we should have some medically-informed (in physical expertise and centennial empirical experience) ethically-decent legal/engineering framework to work with when it comes to intrusive implants. My personal guess is that we'll limit those to tiny <1mm devices that act as mere interfaces with external nodes.
  - projektir 10y ago
    > Even with the best of intents, the actual makers of said phone (and apps) sometimes end up causing it to malfunction in various ways... Let that sink in for a minute. No to take away from what's being said, but I don't think this in particular is a very strong point. Makers of phones and apps do not have the best intents to do a good job. Their primary intent is to sell those phones and apps and many corners are cut on the way there. It may be good enough for that purpose, but it's hardly the best intent.
- marknutter 10y ago
  > 1 is easily reversible and isolated Is it now? Try going without your devices for a month and see just how easy it is.
lallysingh 10y ago
For #2, how often would you have to upgrade it?
- Ygg2 10y ago
  Same way you got it in. Surgery.
  - lallysingh 10y ago
    Sorry I didn't make my question clearer, I was asking how often you'd need surgery.
    - Ygg2 10y ago
      Every time you upgrade :P So, like every two years, for the rest of your life?

akerro 10y ago

>2) Implanting the functionality of that phone in our bodies. For everyone! For free!* * Sponsored by Google, Facebook, NSA, Twitter, Bayern. Terms and conditions apply ask your local dealer for more info.

rubber_duck 10y ago

1 is easily reversible and isolated, 2 not so much. It's realistic and highly probably that someone with a little effort could hack my phone and cause it to malfunction in various ways. I account for that in the way I use it. There is no chance in hell I'm implanting something like that in my body. And that's not even touching on bugs, regular malfunction and shitty standards we have in SW industry for reliability and maintenance - good luck being stuck with an implant from corp X that got acquired and is no longer supporting it.

ageofwant 10y ago
The pervasive nanite cloud that you breathe and drink and eat will take care of dissidents like you. Not that that is likely as NET integration starts moments after conception in the sea of nanobots that permeates your mothers's womb.
K0SM0S 10y ago
> someone with a little effort could hack my phone and cause it to malfunction in various ways Even with the best of intents, the actual makers of said phone (and apps) sometimes end up causing it to malfunction in various ways... Let that sink in for a minute. Admittedly, bio-implants would probably fall under much higher reliability standards than mere external electronics, including user control of the hardware and software. But things like infrastructure (e.g. networks), everything "ambient" to the end device that's required for a true AR paradigm to exist, cannot be accelerated by wishful thinking (e.g. bandwidth, business model of currently leading companies, etc.) While it's crucial that we begin these ethical debates early on, preferably before it actually happens let alone scales, I think we're still a decently big "last-mile"away from an actual consumer-tsunami the likes of PCs or smartphones. Thinking 5 years for early adopter/high end devices, twice that for infra to follow and enable consumer-grade scaling. By that time, 2020-25-ish, we should have some medically-informed (in physical expertise and centennial empirical experience) ethically-decent legal/engineering framework to work with when it comes to intrusive implants. My personal guess is that we'll limit those to tiny <1mm devices that act as mere interfaces with external nodes.
- projektir 10y ago
  > Even with the best of intents, the actual makers of said phone (and apps) sometimes end up causing it to malfunction in various ways... Let that sink in for a minute. No to take away from what's being said, but I don't think this in particular is a very strong point. Makers of phones and apps do not have the best intents to do a good job. Their primary intent is to sell those phones and apps and many corners are cut on the way there. It may be good enough for that purpose, but it's hardly the best intent.
marknutter 10y ago
> 1 is easily reversible and isolated Is it now? Try going without your devices for a month and see just how easy it is.

lallysingh 10y ago

For #2, how often would you have to upgrade it?

Ygg2 10y ago
Same way you got it in. Surgery.
- lallysingh 10y ago
  Sorry I didn't make my question clearer, I was asking how often you'd need surgery.
  - Ygg2 10y ago
    Every time you upgrade :P So, like every two years, for the rest of your life?