8 ms·

Forgive my ignorance, but what caused XMPP to fail? Simply the lack of uptake or is there some other reason?

by mrfregg 10y ago

pmlnr 10y ago
I've been running my email server for a decade without serious glitches. Setting up my own federated XMPP instance is much more problematic and people are already complaining about how hard email is. I'd love to see an up-to-date tutorial that opposes my statement, eg. setting up prosody (or something lightweight) on debian (or similar) with multiple domains for multiple accounts, sending and receiving test messages from another XMPP hub, so if you know one, please link it.
- drdaeman 10y ago
  > Setting up my own federated XMPP instance is much more problematic Actually, I believe it's the contrary. With email you have to obtain a valid TLS certificate, set up SPF, DKIM, and keep eye on the DNSRBLs so you're in good standing. And if Big Company's mail service suddenly decides they don't like you, it won't help. Oh, and spamassasin/rspamd/milter/greylisting/etc stuff so your email server doesn't get thousands of emails per day few weeks after some bot detects your host is listening on tcp/25. XMPP has less adoption, spam exists but is much rare, so there's less stuff to do. Install a package, get a TLS cert, publish an SRV record (IIRC that's not even strictly required), and that's it. A bit fewer steps. Not to say email is MTA+MDA combo (+some fancier LDA, +Sieve if you want more that a simple system) while XMPP is a single piece of software (unless you want transports or external extra services).
  - pmlnr 10y ago
    > XMPP has less adoption, spam exists but is much rare, so there's less stuff to do. Install a package, get a TLS cert, publish an SRV record (IIRC that's not even strictly required), and that's it. A bit fewer steps. That's what I thought as well. Please link tutorial on this.
    - problems 10y ago
      Just install prosody and open up the config file. It includes lots of comments and I believe there's even a web admin interface you can enable. XMPP SRV record documentation can be found here, if you need to use it: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SRV_Records https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SRV_Records If you're finding the documentation to be insufficient, let me know, I might write something more detailed up.
    - drdaeman 10y ago
      Personally, I'm using ejabberd, but I wouldn't recommend it. Don't have any good tutorial links at hand, sorry. I'd agree with /u/problems suggestion to try Prosody. http://prosody.im/doc/install http://prosody.im/doc/install + http://prosody.im/doc/configure http://prosody.im/doc/configure + http://prosody.im/doc/dns#srv_records http://prosody.im/doc/dns#srv_records + http://prosody.im/doc/certificates http://prosody.im/doc/certificates are probably all you have to do to get it up and running.
- SamWhited 10y ago
  This one's a bit minimal since it's designed to fit on a flyer, but it does contain what you need to know; install server of choice, get a TLS cert from somewhere, set DNS records if you want them, done. https://xmpp.org/images/promo/xmpp_server_guide_2017.pdf https://xmpp.org/images/promo/xmpp_server_guide_2017.pdf
RyanZAG 10y ago
Google's embrace-extend-extinguish destroyed XMPP. They made their chat system XMPP compatible for a short time which caused many people to swap to their solution. When they ended support, most users simply stopped using XMPP.
- problems 10y ago
  Did you also notice that Google's messaging system pretty much died out around that point in favor of Skype and similar? I used to see people mention GTalk all the time, but I haven't seen anything similar in years. No one has mentioned G+ or Allo. That decision by Google may have been the thing that killed its user base.
  - ryanbrunner 10y ago
    Hangouts (which I think GTalk turned into) still has some usage - certainly as a quick video conf call solution, and somewhat for text messaging. It definitely doesn't seem to have much of a future though since Google released a bunch of other competing chat applications.
    - gregmac 10y ago
      It's unfortunate because Hangouts is still really awesome. It works really well for video chat (including group chat), but more importantly it works great with multiple devices. I can get a message on my phone, laptop or PC, and reply anywhere, with the conversation and notifications synchronized. I nearly always have my phone with me, but it's really nice to be able to just send someone a link from my PC, for example. It looks like Telegram has multi-device support, but then this kind of thing scares me: > Q: How are you going to make money out of this? > We believe in fast and secure messaging that is also 100% free. > Pavel Durov, who shares our vision, supplied Telegram with a generous donation, so we have quite enough money for the time being. If Telegram runs out, we will introduce non-essential paid options to support the infrastructure and finance developer salaries. But making profits will never be a goal for Telegram. That's not very compelling in terms of investing my effort to switch.
  - 10y ago
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Google, Apple, Facebook, WhatsApp. Everyone[0] is using one of these. None are XMPP or compatible with XMPP. [0] I don't technically mean the entire planet.
- b2600 10y ago
  Curious why you tossed Apple in there. In worldwide usage it's a fraction compared to the other three. (I feel compelled to state I use an iPhone in order to avoid this comment being interpreted incorrectly).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
cpach 10y ago
See this essay for some insights: https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

Forgive my ignorance, but what caused XMPP to fail? Simply the lack of uptake or is there some other reason?

by mrfregg 10y ago

Forgive my ignorance, but what caused XMPP to fail? Simply the lack of uptake or is there some other reason?

pmlnr 10y ago

I've been running my email server for a decade without serious glitches. Setting up my own federated XMPP instance is much more problematic and people are already complaining about how hard email is. I'd love to see an up-to-date tutorial that opposes my statement, eg. setting up prosody (or something lightweight) on debian (or similar) with multiple domains for multiple accounts, sending and receiving test messages from another XMPP hub, so if you know one, please link it.

drdaeman 10y ago
> Setting up my own federated XMPP instance is much more problematic Actually, I believe it's the contrary. With email you have to obtain a valid TLS certificate, set up SPF, DKIM, and keep eye on the DNSRBLs so you're in good standing. And if Big Company's mail service suddenly decides they don't like you, it won't help. Oh, and spamassasin/rspamd/milter/greylisting/etc stuff so your email server doesn't get thousands of emails per day few weeks after some bot detects your host is listening on tcp/25. XMPP has less adoption, spam exists but is much rare, so there's less stuff to do. Install a package, get a TLS cert, publish an SRV record (IIRC that's not even strictly required), and that's it. A bit fewer steps. Not to say email is MTA+MDA combo (+some fancier LDA, +Sieve if you want more that a simple system) while XMPP is a single piece of software (unless you want transports or external extra services).
- pmlnr 10y ago
  > XMPP has less adoption, spam exists but is much rare, so there's less stuff to do. Install a package, get a TLS cert, publish an SRV record (IIRC that's not even strictly required), and that's it. A bit fewer steps. That's what I thought as well. Please link tutorial on this.
  - problems 10y ago
    Just install prosody and open up the config file. It includes lots of comments and I believe there's even a web admin interface you can enable. XMPP SRV record documentation can be found here, if you need to use it: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SRV_Records https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SRV_Records If you're finding the documentation to be insufficient, let me know, I might write something more detailed up.
  - drdaeman 10y ago
    Personally, I'm using ejabberd, but I wouldn't recommend it. Don't have any good tutorial links at hand, sorry. I'd agree with /u/problems suggestion to try Prosody. http://prosody.im/doc/install http://prosody.im/doc/install + http://prosody.im/doc/configure http://prosody.im/doc/configure + http://prosody.im/doc/dns#srv_records http://prosody.im/doc/dns#srv_records + http://prosody.im/doc/certificates http://prosody.im/doc/certificates are probably all you have to do to get it up and running.
SamWhited 10y ago
This one's a bit minimal since it's designed to fit on a flyer, but it does contain what you need to know; install server of choice, get a TLS cert from somewhere, set DNS records if you want them, done. https://xmpp.org/images/promo/xmpp_server_guide_2017.pdf https://xmpp.org/images/promo/xmpp_server_guide_2017.pdf

RyanZAG 10y ago

Google's embrace-extend-extinguish destroyed XMPP. They made their chat system XMPP compatible for a short time which caused many people to swap to their solution. When they ended support, most users simply stopped using XMPP.

problems 10y ago
Did you also notice that Google's messaging system pretty much died out around that point in favor of Skype and similar? I used to see people mention GTalk all the time, but I haven't seen anything similar in years. No one has mentioned G+ or Allo. That decision by Google may have been the thing that killed its user base.
- ryanbrunner 10y ago
  Hangouts (which I think GTalk turned into) still has some usage - certainly as a quick video conf call solution, and somewhat for text messaging. It definitely doesn't seem to have much of a future though since Google released a bunch of other competing chat applications.
  - gregmac 10y ago
    It's unfortunate because Hangouts is still really awesome. It works really well for video chat (including group chat), but more importantly it works great with multiple devices. I can get a message on my phone, laptop or PC, and reply anywhere, with the conversation and notifications synchronized. I nearly always have my phone with me, but it's really nice to be able to just send someone a link from my PC, for example. It looks like Telegram has multi-device support, but then this kind of thing scares me: > Q: How are you going to make money out of this? > We believe in fast and secure messaging that is also 100% free. > Pavel Durov, who shares our vision, supplied Telegram with a generous donation, so we have quite enough money for the time being. If Telegram runs out, we will introduce non-essential paid options to support the infrastructure and finance developer salaries. But making profits will never be a goal for Telegram. That's not very compelling in terms of investing my effort to switch.
- 10y ago

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

Google, Apple, Facebook, WhatsApp. Everyone[0] is using one of these. None are XMPP or compatible with XMPP. [0] I don't technically mean the entire planet.

b2600 10y ago
Curious why you tossed Apple in there. In worldwide usage it's a fraction compared to the other three. (I feel compelled to state I use an iPhone in order to avoid this comment being interpreted incorrectly).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

cpach 10y ago

See this essay for some insights: https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/