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> Russia has good reason to be worried about their defense. The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. Show me a recent Western interventi

by rrggrr 10y ago

> Russia has good reason to be worried about their defense. The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. Show me a recent Western intervention that threatens Russia's legitimate security interests. Syria? Perhaps. Aside from that your assertion is unsupported.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Disclaimer: Russia is an authoritarian country and not a shining example of freedom. That being said.... If you were Russian and you'd spent the last century watching the West undercut you and try and control you at every step (for valid reasons in a lot of cases), you'd be threatened, too. They went from being a superpower to having 100 million more people than California with the same GDP, while watching their own neighboring states get courted by the West. Russia isn't justified in what they've done, but put yourself in their shoes. Of course it doesn't help that history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people, but it's given them a lot of pride and being dictated to by the US has upset that pride. If the Russians believed that he US genuinely had their best interests in mind, things might be different.
- rrggrr 10y ago
  Countries either stand for something or they don't. The countries who give enough lip service, money and legislative attention to egalitarian principles always outperform countries who do not. What does Russia stand for and how has it made the world a better place?
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >Russia isn't justified in what they've done, but put yourself in their shoes. Of course it doesn't help that history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people, but it's given them a lot of pride and being dictated to by the US has upset that pride. This sounds a lot like apologizing for Germany's feelings in 1930. Except, of course, the Russians had their 1933 in 2010 or so. They did get shafted! They've also responded to that shafting by becoming a heavily authoritarian military aggressor.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    I'm not apologizing for them, just saying there are centuries of history wrapped up into this. Russia has done some evil things to others and its own people (understatement), but it's not US (good) vs Russia (evil). It's a little here and a little there and if we ever want to reach across the table and have real peace it's by treating them and every other country with respect instead of as a doormat. Do American policy makers care if the average Russian has a hard life? Not really. But Russians certainly do and they are doing what they perceive to be protecting their own interests, for right and wrong. Cornered animals fight. We've backed a starving bear into a corner and are surprised when it lashes out.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  >history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people Their leadership just doesn't/didn't value human lives very much. How about you put yourself in the shoes of people who's lives were ruined by Russian expansionism? Oh, and why should we care about their pride at all?
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    You're right about their leadership. But that goes for a lot of nations....and that goes for US foreign policy. How about you put yourself in the shoes of people who's lives were ruined by Russian expansionism? And we absolutely should. Why not do both? Oh, and why should we care about their pride at all? Understanding motives is very important.
PacketPaul 10y ago
The expansion of NATO deep into former Warsaw Pact countries.
- ericd 10y ago
  At the request of those countries, no?
  - oblio 10y ago
    No, you see, if Russia wants something that other countries don't want, then that's ok. But if other countries, especially smaller ones, want something, then to hell with them!
- Melk 10y ago
  >The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. That's what you're replying to. Several former Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. The West didn't invade them.
  - VLM 10y ago
    More or less analogous to when the Germans went into Austria in '38.
    - catawbasam 10y ago
      No
  - vkou 10y ago
    If Canada were to allow China to start building military bases and anti-ICBM defense sites on the Canada/US border, there'd be regime change on Parliament Hill within the week. Every empire needs aligned, friendly, or at least, neutral buffer states on their borders - and will violently defend incursions into their buffer zones. Observe the shitshow over Cuba - sixty years of sanctions, terrorism, assassination attempts, an invasion, and a nuclear crisis later, the United States still hasn't forgiven it. The United States was ready to bathe the entire world in nuclear fire - because a neighbouring country entered into a military alliance with the USSR. Let that sink in... And then consider what expanding NATO into Eastern Europe, US support of Georgia, regime change in Syria looks like from the Russian point of view.
baursak 10y ago
Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo
seppin 10y ago
> Russia has good reason to be worried about their defense. The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. Who is under a greater threat of being invaded: Russian by the west or a ex-Soviet Union Baltic state by Russia?

by rrggrr 10y ago

aaron-lebo 10y ago

Disclaimer: Russia is an authoritarian country and not a shining example of freedom. That being said.... If you were Russian and you'd spent the last century watching the West undercut you and try and control you at every step (for valid reasons in a lot of cases), you'd be threatened, too. They went from being a superpower to having 100 million more people than California with the same GDP, while watching their own neighboring states get courted by the West. Russia isn't justified in what they've done, but put yourself in their shoes. Of course it doesn't help that history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people, but it's given them a lot of pride and being dictated to by the US has upset that pride. If the Russians believed that he US genuinely had their best interests in mind, things might be different.

rrggrr 10y ago
Countries either stand for something or they don't. The countries who give enough lip service, money and legislative attention to egalitarian principles always outperform countries who do not. What does Russia stand for and how has it made the world a better place?
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>Russia isn't justified in what they've done, but put yourself in their shoes. Of course it doesn't help that history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people, but it's given them a lot of pride and being dictated to by the US has upset that pride. This sounds a lot like apologizing for Germany's feelings in 1930. Except, of course, the Russians had their 1933 in 2010 or so. They did get shafted! They've also responded to that shafting by becoming a heavily authoritarian military aggressor.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  I'm not apologizing for them, just saying there are centuries of history wrapped up into this. Russia has done some evil things to others and its own people (understatement), but it's not US (good) vs Russia (evil). It's a little here and a little there and if we ever want to reach across the table and have real peace it's by treating them and every other country with respect instead of as a doormat. Do American policy makers care if the average Russian has a hard life? Not really. But Russians certainly do and they are doing what they perceive to be protecting their own interests, for right and wrong. Cornered animals fight. We've backed a starving bear into a corner and are surprised when it lashes out.
literallycancer 10y ago
>history has been exceedingly cruel to the Russian people Their leadership just doesn't/didn't value human lives very much. How about you put yourself in the shoes of people who's lives were ruined by Russian expansionism? Oh, and why should we care about their pride at all?
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  You're right about their leadership. But that goes for a lot of nations....and that goes for US foreign policy. How about you put yourself in the shoes of people who's lives were ruined by Russian expansionism? And we absolutely should. Why not do both? Oh, and why should we care about their pride at all? Understanding motives is very important.

PacketPaul 10y ago

The expansion of NATO deep into former Warsaw Pact countries.

ericd 10y ago
At the request of those countries, no?
- oblio 10y ago
  No, you see, if Russia wants something that other countries don't want, then that's ok. But if other countries, especially smaller ones, want something, then to hell with them!
Melk 10y ago
>The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. That's what you're replying to. Several former Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. The West didn't invade them.
- VLM 10y ago
  More or less analogous to when the Germans went into Austria in '38.
  - catawbasam 10y ago
    No
- vkou 10y ago
  If Canada were to allow China to start building military bases and anti-ICBM defense sites on the Canada/US border, there'd be regime change on Parliament Hill within the week. Every empire needs aligned, friendly, or at least, neutral buffer states on their borders - and will violently defend incursions into their buffer zones. Observe the shitshow over Cuba - sixty years of sanctions, terrorism, assassination attempts, an invasion, and a nuclear crisis later, the United States still hasn't forgiven it. The United States was ready to bathe the entire world in nuclear fire - because a neighbouring country entered into a military alliance with the USSR. Let that sink in... And then consider what expanding NATO into Eastern Europe, US support of Georgia, regime change in Syria looks like from the Russian point of view.

baursak 10y ago

Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo

seppin 10y ago

> Russia has good reason to be worried about their defense. The western powers have been doing most of the invading lately. Who is under a greater threat of being invaded: Russian by the west or a ex-Soviet Union Baltic state by Russia?