3 ms·

> non homogenized (yes it makes a difference. In taste and texture and arguably healthier) Could you elaborate on this? What's the argument for non-homogenized

by Veratyr 10y ago

> non homogenized (yes it makes a difference. In taste and texture and arguably healthier) Could you elaborate on this? What's the argument for non-homogenized milk being healthier? Per Wikipedia: "The fat in milk normally separates from the water and collects at the top. Homogenization breaks the fat into smaller sizes so it no longer separates, allowing the sale of non-separating milk at any fat specification." I just don't understand how smaller fat particles are less healthy than large ones at the top (apart from perhaps the liquid milk being fattier, in which case you can simply buy milk with less fat).

jelliclesfarm 10y ago
If I may..even though the quote isn't attributed to me... It's really a long and involved answer but I am going to try my best to keep it simple. Raw milk that has fat(lipids), protein, amino acids and sugars(glucose) amongst other good stuff. Milk is essentially a suspension..that is fat suspended in the fluid. When you homogenize milk, it is passed through a fine nozzle so that it's no longer a suspension. It is all one homogenous uniform mixture..with everything mixed and melded together. What happens is that the lipids in the original raw state is encased within a thin membrane called milk fat globule membrane..that's why the cream is 'suspended' and separate from the liquid milk itself. This membrane/cell wall of the lipid is now shattered during the homogenization process. That membrane is there for a reason. Mammalian milk is the complete food for the offsprings..from an evolutionary pov, it has to contain everything to sustain the infant. Lactation is a highly expensive action for the mammalian mother..why would she give up so much resources and energy to design lipids and protein and other stuff so perfectly packaged in the medium that is suspension based raw milk delivery system? The fat globule membrane could be there for the right order in which to digest or process the nutrients for the most optimal and complete food source for the baby. Modern machinations have altered the structure of milk protein/fats/sugars that full fat(aka regular) milk is considered unhealthy. Milk can cause indigestion..milk fats causes heart disease..the sugars are considered carbs. But it is really the perfect and complete food which has the exact delivery system that costs the mother so much to provide her offspring. Of course, the mother in this case is the cow from whose offsprings we steal the milk but the evolutionary argument for the structure of raw milk and the weirdness/uselessness/wastefulness of trying to alter its perfect structure remains.. On a slightly related note..goat milk for example has higher protein but it doesn't contain the milk fat globule membrane..and it isn't necessary to homogenize it..it comes naturally homogenized. Some have lesser intolerances with goats milk than with cows milk..so I am going to guess that it has something to do with casein. Donkeys milk..yaks milk..buffalo milk..camels milk..sheeps milk. They are all acceptable to drink in diff parts of the world. I grew up on buffalos milk which is richer and creamier. Big topic..I hope I haven't digressed too much! Gah!
- Veratyr 10y ago
  It still doesn't quite make sense to me. The argument you're presenting, as I understand it, is that evolution resulted in milk naturally being made a certain way (with a membrane) and that changing this is might be bad but we don't really know?
  - jelliclesfarm 10y ago
    there has been studies but there has always been conflicting points of views about it. personally: i feel that the milk fat globule membrane slows down digestion. and the lipids take longer before they are introduced into the digestion process. this could have some positive effects. not dissimilar to eating a spoonful of sugar and having a spoonful of sugar with fruit baked as a tart. the science of it is so complicated that i cant even remember how it works but i am sure you can google it. it has something to do with bile acids and bile salts and which part of the stomach the lipids get absorbed. i just recall from way long ago. it makes more sense to me because studies show that homogenised milk increases digestablity of milk. perhaps its not meant to be digested quickly. perhaps there is a genetic component to it wherein not everyone is meant to be dairy consumers. having said that..what stuck to me was the evolutionary design of milk itself. there was something very poetic about it. all body secretions are actually elegant story tellers if you think about it. it tells a story about the person from whom it comes..its like a snapshot..be it blood or mucus or semen or milk or plasma or even that booger you dig from your nose. mammalian milk has a very specific function. they are carriers. its costly for the person who is producing it. as per design, it is the most perfect structure. the milk we consume doesnt come from our species. it comes from the cow which is definitely much much different than us..they have four stomachs, for starters. we should start with whether cows milk is even suitable for us. having started with an imperfect product that is ill fitted for human consumption, messing it up further makes no sense. having said that, studies show that human milk has MFG(milk fat globules) too. so..to me..logically, i would want the milk fat globule membrane intact in any other mammalian milk product too. i wouldnt go as far as drinking bovine raw milk unless i knew where it came from...but i honestly dont see anything beneficial about homogenisation. on the other hand, we dont really know if there are ill effects to it. i would stick to what's natural given the lack of definitive studies. [...]Human milk contains many components that protect the newborn against infection at a time when the infant's own defense mechanisms are poorly developed. Fat is one of the major nutrients in human milk. The fat is contained within milk fat globules composed of a core of triglyceride and a membrane consisting of phospholipids, cholesterol, proteins, and glycoproteins. Both the membrane and the core components can provide protection against microorganisms. The major protective membrane glycoproteins, mucin, and lactadherin are resistant to conditions in the newborn's stomach and maintain their structure and function even at low pH and in the presence of the proteolytic enzyme pepsin. The core triglycerides upon hydrolysis by digestive lipases (especially gastric lipase, which is well developed in the newborn) produce free fatty acids and monoglycerides, amphiphylic substances able to lyse enveloped viruses, bacteria, and protozoa. Therefore, in addition to its nutritional value, the fat in human milk has a major protective function.[...]

by Veratyr 10y ago

jelliclesfarm 10y ago

If I may..even though the quote isn't attributed to me... It's really a long and involved answer but I am going to try my best to keep it simple. Raw milk that has fat(lipids), protein, amino acids and sugars(glucose) amongst other good stuff. Milk is essentially a suspension..that is fat suspended in the fluid. When you homogenize milk, it is passed through a fine nozzle so that it's no longer a suspension. It is all one homogenous uniform mixture..with everything mixed and melded together. What happens is that the lipids in the original raw state is encased within a thin membrane called milk fat globule membrane..that's why the cream is 'suspended' and separate from the liquid milk itself. This membrane/cell wall of the lipid is now shattered during the homogenization process. That membrane is there for a reason. Mammalian milk is the complete food for the offsprings..from an evolutionary pov, it has to contain everything to sustain the infant. Lactation is a highly expensive action for the mammalian mother..why would she give up so much resources and energy to design lipids and protein and other stuff so perfectly packaged in the medium that is suspension based raw milk delivery system? The fat globule membrane could be there for the right order in which to digest or process the nutrients for the most optimal and complete food source for the baby. Modern machinations have altered the structure of milk protein/fats/sugars that full fat(aka regular) milk is considered unhealthy. Milk can cause indigestion..milk fats causes heart disease..the sugars are considered carbs. But it is really the perfect and complete food which has the exact delivery system that costs the mother so much to provide her offspring. Of course, the mother in this case is the cow from whose offsprings we steal the milk but the evolutionary argument for the structure of raw milk and the weirdness/uselessness/wastefulness of trying to alter its perfect structure remains.. On a slightly related note..goat milk for example has higher protein but it doesn't contain the milk fat globule membrane..and it isn't necessary to homogenize it..it comes naturally homogenized. Some have lesser intolerances with goats milk than with cows milk..so I am going to guess that it has something to do with casein. Donkeys milk..yaks milk..buffalo milk..camels milk..sheeps milk. They are all acceptable to drink in diff parts of the world. I grew up on buffalos milk which is richer and creamier. Big topic..I hope I haven't digressed too much! Gah!

Veratyr 10y ago
It still doesn't quite make sense to me. The argument you're presenting, as I understand it, is that evolution resulted in milk naturally being made a certain way (with a membrane) and that changing this is might be bad but we don't really know?
- jelliclesfarm 10y ago
  there has been studies but there has always been conflicting points of views about it. personally: i feel that the milk fat globule membrane slows down digestion. and the lipids take longer before they are introduced into the digestion process. this could have some positive effects. not dissimilar to eating a spoonful of sugar and having a spoonful of sugar with fruit baked as a tart. the science of it is so complicated that i cant even remember how it works but i am sure you can google it. it has something to do with bile acids and bile salts and which part of the stomach the lipids get absorbed. i just recall from way long ago. it makes more sense to me because studies show that homogenised milk increases digestablity of milk. perhaps its not meant to be digested quickly. perhaps there is a genetic component to it wherein not everyone is meant to be dairy consumers. having said that..what stuck to me was the evolutionary design of milk itself. there was something very poetic about it. all body secretions are actually elegant story tellers if you think about it. it tells a story about the person from whom it comes..its like a snapshot..be it blood or mucus or semen or milk or plasma or even that booger you dig from your nose. mammalian milk has a very specific function. they are carriers. its costly for the person who is producing it. as per design, it is the most perfect structure. the milk we consume doesnt come from our species. it comes from the cow which is definitely much much different than us..they have four stomachs, for starters. we should start with whether cows milk is even suitable for us. having started with an imperfect product that is ill fitted for human consumption, messing it up further makes no sense. having said that, studies show that human milk has MFG(milk fat globules) too. so..to me..logically, i would want the milk fat globule membrane intact in any other mammalian milk product too. i wouldnt go as far as drinking bovine raw milk unless i knew where it came from...but i honestly dont see anything beneficial about homogenisation. on the other hand, we dont really know if there are ill effects to it. i would stick to what's natural given the lack of definitive studies. [...]Human milk contains many components that protect the newborn against infection at a time when the infant's own defense mechanisms are poorly developed. Fat is one of the major nutrients in human milk. The fat is contained within milk fat globules composed of a core of triglyceride and a membrane consisting of phospholipids, cholesterol, proteins, and glycoproteins. Both the membrane and the core components can provide protection against microorganisms. The major protective membrane glycoproteins, mucin, and lactadherin are resistant to conditions in the newborn's stomach and maintain their structure and function even at low pH and in the presence of the proteolytic enzyme pepsin. The core triglycerides upon hydrolysis by digestive lipases (especially gastric lipase, which is well developed in the newborn) produce free fatty acids and monoglycerides, amphiphylic substances able to lyse enveloped viruses, bacteria, and protozoa. Therefore, in addition to its nutritional value, the fat in human milk has a major protective function.[...]