4 ms·

If you wont stand up for the rights of even the most vile of humans, you deserve none.

throwanem 10y ago
I don't believe I have failed to do that. The conversation here revolves around 'coldtea's rather remarkable claim that distribution of child pornography should not constitute a crime. Were I, though, for some unaccountable reason required to clarify my opinion on Rawls' situation despite it being in no way pertinent to the discussion at hand, I would note that I consider his treatment in contravention of both the right to speedy trial and, although I'm not as sure about this one, habeas corpus as well. The case as a whole, and the prosecution's attitude toward it, strike me as a solid example of the troubling habit of overreach our legislative and law-enforcement communities seem to be developing toward strong cryptography, which is as morally neutral as any other technology. On the other hand, it's rather difficult to argue other than that a government unable to maintain order is unable to effectively govern, and not at all difficult to understand how, viewed from such a perspective, effectively impermeable cryptography might well seem an imminent danger to the security of the state and of those of its citizens not engaged in the sorts of activities which tend to undermine the ability of the government to maintain order. I understand that, especially since last November, the Overton window around opinions on the United States government has shifted such that mere deep and lasting mistrust seems absurdly moderate. But there is nuance here, and to ignore it in search of easy answers is as foolish in this context as in every other. And quite aside from all that, there is the strong utilitarian argument to be made that this is not the hook on which to hang your defense of encryption, privacy, et cetera. Pedophiles and child molesters come in for about the strongest opprobrium our society ever brings to bear. Do you really not have anyone else around whom to build this case, so that you might have an easier time arguing against such mistreatment of someone as yet convicted of no crime? If you exclude refusal to decrypt a volume on demand from the permissible causes for a finding of contempt, you solve this fellow's problem, too. Can you really not find any way to do that that doesn't involve putting him front and center, where it is literally impossible to separate the substance of the issue from the allegations of extreme unsavoriness which will be leveled against his character, and by extension yours as well? Remember, if you're going to make a meaningful contribution in this realm, you must of necessity do so in the world where we actually live, not the one where you'd prefer that we did. In the world where we actually live, pedophiles and child molesters are the lowest of the low, and even the mere accusation of involvement in such activities is often enough to ruin lives. It's already hard enough to sell the argument you're making. Why is it worth your while to make it a whole lot harder?

I don't believe I have failed to do that. The conversation here revolves around 'coldtea's rather remarkable claim that distribution of child pornography should not constitute a crime. Were I, though, for some unaccountable reason required to clarify my opinion on Rawls' situation despite it being in no way pertinent to the discussion at hand, I would note that I consider his treatment in contravention of both the right to speedy trial and, although I'm not as sure about this one, habeas corpus as well. The case as a whole, and the prosecution's attitude toward it, strike me as a solid example of the troubling habit of overreach our legislative and law-enforcement communities seem to be developing toward strong cryptography, which is as morally neutral as any other technology. On the other hand, it's rather difficult to argue other than that a government unable to maintain order is unable to effectively govern, and not at all difficult to understand how, viewed from such a perspective, effectively impermeable cryptography might well seem an imminent danger to the security of the state and of those of its citizens not engaged in the sorts of activities which tend to undermine the ability of the government to maintain order. I understand that, especially since last November, the Overton window around opinions on the United States government has shifted such that mere deep and lasting mistrust seems absurdly moderate. But there is nuance here, and to ignore it in search of easy answers is as foolish in this context as in every other. And quite aside from all that, there is the strong utilitarian argument to be made that this is not the hook on which to hang your defense of encryption, privacy, et cetera. Pedophiles and child molesters come in for about the strongest opprobrium our society ever brings to bear. Do you really not have anyone else around whom to build this case, so that you might have an easier time arguing against such mistreatment of someone as yet convicted of no crime? If you exclude refusal to decrypt a volume on demand from the permissible causes for a finding of contempt, you solve this fellow's problem, too. Can you really not find any way to do that that doesn't involve putting him front and center, where it is literally impossible to separate the substance of the issue from the allegations of extreme unsavoriness which will be leveled against his character, and by extension yours as well? Remember, if you're going to make a meaningful contribution in this realm, you must of necessity do so in the world where we actually live, not the one where you'd prefer that we did. In the world where we actually live, pedophiles and child molesters are the lowest of the low, and even the mere accusation of involvement in such activities is often enough to ruin lives. It's already hard enough to sell the argument you're making. Why is it worth your while to make it a whole lot harder?