4 ms·

Indeed. The article cites the stigma of being the woman who can't come in to work because her child threw up -- but there's far more stigma attached to being t

Indeed. The article cites the stigma of being the woman who can't come in to work because her child threw up -- but there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up.

dangerlibrary 10y ago
I remember reading (found it: [0]) that men tend to lie about these situations and claim they have something not-childcare-related to do, whereas women are more likely to be honest about the reason for their absence. [0]: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975 http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975
- smelendez 10y ago
  That's fascinating. I wonder if it's true of absences from the workforce, as well. My suspicion is that "adventurous" reasons for taking time away from a typical career path--playing professional poker, sailing around the world, touring with a band--are rewarded in the job search, especially in men, while reasons like child or elder care are punished, especially in women. I'm not convinced that reflects who's actually going to be a valuable, committed employee.
pavel_lishin 10y ago
> there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up. I'm pretty spoiled ("privileged" might be a more accurate term), but I've called out fairly often due to having a much better time off policy than my wife - so when the kid is sick and can't go to daycare, I tend to pick up 75%+ of the stay-home time with her. I've never had a problem at work, and other dads at work have done the same thing. I literally can't imagine someone giving me shit about it, or a coworker suggesting that it's the woman's/mom's job to stay home with a sick child. I guess it's different in non-software fields?
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  For the most part software dev is roughly results driven. I'd be surprised if your work was happy with you being 20-30% less productive than your coworkers for equal pay.
- jrs235 10y ago
  If shit were given to me about staying home with my sick child this is what I say: "If you'd like to stay home with my child I'll make it in or if you really want me in today I can make it if I bring my child in too. What's that? You don't want to get sick? That's what I thought. I'll be staying at home with my sick child today."
- cperciva 10y ago
  You're lucky to have such an enlightened workplace. There are many companies where fathers are officially allowed to take parental leave or work flexible hours, but in practice everybody knows that those are really just for women; the fact that men are allowed to make use of those options and people don't say anything doesn't necessarily mean that they don't quietly write off child-caring men as being unreliable or uncommitted. I don't have any data on flexible work hours, but in 2011 a study found that only 4% of new fathers took over 2 weeks of parental leave. This is why it was so important when Zuckerberg took two months of parental leave -- it set an example and communicated to the company "men taking parental leave is normal".
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    My workplace only gives us 2 weeks off for paternity; but I was able to take an additional week off as vacation. tbh, it still wasn't enough.
deleted 10y ago
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dangerlibrary 10y ago

I remember reading (found it: [0]) that men tend to lie about these situations and claim they have something not-childcare-related to do, whereas women are more likely to be honest about the reason for their absence. [0]: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975 http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975

smelendez 10y ago
That's fascinating. I wonder if it's true of absences from the workforce, as well. My suspicion is that "adventurous" reasons for taking time away from a typical career path--playing professional poker, sailing around the world, touring with a band--are rewarded in the job search, especially in men, while reasons like child or elder care are punished, especially in women. I'm not convinced that reflects who's actually going to be a valuable, committed employee.

pavel_lishin 10y ago

> there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up. I'm pretty spoiled ("privileged" might be a more accurate term), but I've called out fairly often due to having a much better time off policy than my wife - so when the kid is sick and can't go to daycare, I tend to pick up 75%+ of the stay-home time with her. I've never had a problem at work, and other dads at work have done the same thing. I literally can't imagine someone giving me shit about it, or a coworker suggesting that it's the woman's/mom's job to stay home with a sick child. I guess it's different in non-software fields?

sheepmullet 10y ago
For the most part software dev is roughly results driven. I'd be surprised if your work was happy with you being 20-30% less productive than your coworkers for equal pay.
jrs235 10y ago
If shit were given to me about staying home with my sick child this is what I say: "If you'd like to stay home with my child I'll make it in or if you really want me in today I can make it if I bring my child in too. What's that? You don't want to get sick? That's what I thought. I'll be staying at home with my sick child today."
cperciva 10y ago
You're lucky to have such an enlightened workplace. There are many companies where fathers are officially allowed to take parental leave or work flexible hours, but in practice everybody knows that those are really just for women; the fact that men are allowed to make use of those options and people don't say anything doesn't necessarily mean that they don't quietly write off child-caring men as being unreliable or uncommitted. I don't have any data on flexible work hours, but in 2011 a study found that only 4% of new fathers took over 2 weeks of parental leave. This is why it was so important when Zuckerberg took two months of parental leave -- it set an example and communicated to the company "men taking parental leave is normal".
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  My workplace only gives us 2 weeks off for paternity; but I was able to take an additional week off as vacation. tbh, it still wasn't enough.

deleted 10y ago

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