3 ms·

The solution to the gender gap is to fundamentally change how work is done. I'm glad it was that simple.

nasalgoat 10y ago
I'm not sure an hour one way or another is really "fundamentally" changing anything. 8-4 or 10-6 vs. 9-5 is pretty normal, actually.
dlo 10y ago
I think the employer that is able to accommodate a variety of different schedules, and indirectly, challenges that their employees face in their lives, will be a sought-after place to work. If an employer is trying to attract the best employees, this could be a major competitive advantage. Google can offer superior compensation, but they likely will not be able to offer this due to institutional inertia, people who believe in and are invested in the current system. No employer, especially a startup, has to follow conventional wisdom on how to run a workplace. They could decide to upend things next week if they wanted to.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  It's very true. In my situation, I struggled for years with attendance because my spouse had a seemingly impossible time getting up on a consistent basis to take care of the kids so i can go to work... lots of fights ensued, a even lost a couple of jobs to it (though the employers were mostly kind, and my managers appreciated the situation, but the strict rules of the company basically meant i had to leave) Turns out, my wife has an actual sleeping disorder (DSPD[1]), and my new position, when I came to my managers about it, they worked with me. I work from home now every morning until about noon when I head into the office. If there is a meeting that I need to be in physically in the morning, than I still go in (waking up "early" once in a while is fine, the problem in the past was basically waking up early every day for years) ... it works out for everyone, I end up putting more work in (instead of sitting around for 3 hours before work when i woke up at 6am, now i am working at 6:30 ... then i go in at 12, and work till 5). I'm gladly putting in that extra time, too... as a sort of appreciation for what they are helping me with. It also drives loyalty, and I'm very loyal to both the company AND my managers for working with me. There is literally no downside to the arrangement from anyone's point of view... and it all comes from just being flexible. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
jmcdiesel 10y ago
I think your mindset is part of the problem... WHEN someone works isn't a fundamental issue. IF we're talking retail, thats an obvious exception. If we're talking a job where the employee isnt directly contacting customers, then the time they work is largely less important. The most efficient team I've worked on in my career was made up from people around the world, there were 9 of us, everyone single one was in a different timezone, some 12 hours off from each other... and we got more done as a team than any Team I've been on before or sense... and it was largely due to the nature of our hours... we had to make sure we buttoned our shit up, we documented it well, we communicated VERY efficiently and effectively... etc. I know it doesn't work for every position at every company, no single thing does, but to consider 9-5 (or any set schedule in particular) "fundamental" to business is short-sided at best...
- flootch 10y ago
  Yeah, retail, food, healthcare, transportation, maintenance, manufacturing, trash pickup, almost everything really. But nah, hell with anyone whose job ain't yours.
  - jmcdiesel 10y ago
    Which is covered by the whole "customer facing" thing I said... and even caveated against. My point still stands though, its not "fundamental" to work in general.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  No, many jobs aren't customer facing yet require you to be in a certain place at a certain time, such as most trades (carpentry and welding), long haul trucking, repairman, and deliveryman. The only job I can think of that won't get mostly automated away are either jobs that require either/both lots of creative talent (such as a highly skilled engineer, artist, etc) or require an actual onsite presence (contractor, building inspector, pest control.)
  - jmcdiesel 10y ago
    "No, many jobs aren't customer facing yet require you to be in a certain place at a certain time, such as most trades (carpentry and welding), long haul trucking, repairman, and deliveryman." What about those, if you're not interacting with the customer, requires a certain time? A repairman can work any time if hes not dealing with the customer - as long as the job is done on time. The same for all of these. Most of the things you listed are customer facing... which is why they have timeframes, so you can interact with the customer (or have access, etc).
dang 10y ago
Please don't post snarky dismissals here. Few things are worse for thoughtful conversation, even when the underlying point is a good one.

I'm not sure an hour one way or another is really "fundamentally" changing anything. 8-4 or 10-6 vs. 9-5 is pretty normal, actually.

dlo 10y ago

I think the employer that is able to accommodate a variety of different schedules, and indirectly, challenges that their employees face in their lives, will be a sought-after place to work. If an employer is trying to attract the best employees, this could be a major competitive advantage. Google can offer superior compensation, but they likely will not be able to offer this due to institutional inertia, people who believe in and are invested in the current system. No employer, especially a startup, has to follow conventional wisdom on how to run a workplace. They could decide to upend things next week if they wanted to.

jmcdiesel 10y ago
It's very true. In my situation, I struggled for years with attendance because my spouse had a seemingly impossible time getting up on a consistent basis to take care of the kids so i can go to work... lots of fights ensued, a even lost a couple of jobs to it (though the employers were mostly kind, and my managers appreciated the situation, but the strict rules of the company basically meant i had to leave) Turns out, my wife has an actual sleeping disorder (DSPD[1]), and my new position, when I came to my managers about it, they worked with me. I work from home now every morning until about noon when I head into the office. If there is a meeting that I need to be in physically in the morning, than I still go in (waking up "early" once in a while is fine, the problem in the past was basically waking up early every day for years) ... it works out for everyone, I end up putting more work in (instead of sitting around for 3 hours before work when i woke up at 6am, now i am working at 6:30 ... then i go in at 12, and work till 5). I'm gladly putting in that extra time, too... as a sort of appreciation for what they are helping me with. It also drives loyalty, and I'm very loyal to both the company AND my managers for working with me. There is literally no downside to the arrangement from anyone's point of view... and it all comes from just being flexible. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

jmcdiesel 10y ago

I think your mindset is part of the problem... WHEN someone works isn't a fundamental issue. IF we're talking retail, thats an obvious exception. If we're talking a job where the employee isnt directly contacting customers, then the time they work is largely less important. The most efficient team I've worked on in my career was made up from people around the world, there were 9 of us, everyone single one was in a different timezone, some 12 hours off from each other... and we got more done as a team than any Team I've been on before or sense... and it was largely due to the nature of our hours... we had to make sure we buttoned our shit up, we documented it well, we communicated VERY efficiently and effectively... etc. I know it doesn't work for every position at every company, no single thing does, but to consider 9-5 (or any set schedule in particular) "fundamental" to business is short-sided at best...

flootch 10y ago
Yeah, retail, food, healthcare, transportation, maintenance, manufacturing, trash pickup, almost everything really. But nah, hell with anyone whose job ain't yours.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  Which is covered by the whole "customer facing" thing I said... and even caveated against. My point still stands though, its not "fundamental" to work in general.
jimmywanger 10y ago
No, many jobs aren't customer facing yet require you to be in a certain place at a certain time, such as most trades (carpentry and welding), long haul trucking, repairman, and deliveryman. The only job I can think of that won't get mostly automated away are either jobs that require either/both lots of creative talent (such as a highly skilled engineer, artist, etc) or require an actual onsite presence (contractor, building inspector, pest control.)
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  "No, many jobs aren't customer facing yet require you to be in a certain place at a certain time, such as most trades (carpentry and welding), long haul trucking, repairman, and deliveryman." What about those, if you're not interacting with the customer, requires a certain time? A repairman can work any time if hes not dealing with the customer - as long as the job is done on time. The same for all of these. Most of the things you listed are customer facing... which is why they have timeframes, so you can interact with the customer (or have access, etc).

dang 10y ago

Please don't post snarky dismissals here. Few things are worse for thoughtful conversation, even when the underlying point is a good one.