9 ms·

How to Close a Gender Gap: Let Employees Control Their Schedules

77 points by nishs 10y ago

david-gpu 10y ago
The article puts a strong emphasis in how (truly) flexible schedules benefit women but I think it applies just as well to men, particularly once you have children.
- wmccullough 10y ago
  Precisely. The flexibility would be helpful irrespective of gender. It says a lot about our culture (or lack thereof) that we even have this issue to start with.
  - mpweiher 10y ago
    And that we find it to be an issue once it's a problem for women, whereas as long as it was a problem just for men it was perfectly fine.
    - cperciva 10y ago
      When people followed the gender roles of "women stay home and raise children; men leave their kids behind and go to work", neither gender had much overlap between employment and child care. Societal acceptance of men as performing child care lags behind societal acceptance of women as performing paid employment, so it's inevitable that the issues inherent in combining child care and paid employment have hit women first. It's important to raise awareness that this is an issue which affects both genders, but I wouldn't ascribe any malice to the fact that it first gained attention as an issue affecting women.
      - lostsock 10y ago
        Beautifully put!
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      No, that's nonsense and you are projecting your own insecurities onto this issue.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      That's mostly because of other men in a male dominated workplace. It is statistically not going to be a woman that they're lying to. That pesky toxic masculinity hurts men quite a bit, but a lot of men seem invested in maintaining it. Changing this status quo benefits everyone.
- cperciva 10y ago
  Indeed. The article cites the stigma of being the woman who can't come in to work because her child threw up -- but there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up.
  - dangerlibrary 10y ago
    I remember reading (found it: [0]) that men tend to lie about these situations and claim they have something not-childcare-related to do, whereas women are more likely to be honest about the reason for their absence. [0]: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975 http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975
    - smelendez 10y ago
      That's fascinating. I wonder if it's true of absences from the workforce, as well. My suspicion is that "adventurous" reasons for taking time away from a typical career path--playing professional poker, sailing around the world, touring with a band--are rewarded in the job search, especially in men, while reasons like child or elder care are punished, especially in women. I'm not convinced that reflects who's actually going to be a valuable, committed employee.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    > there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up. I'm pretty spoiled ("privileged" might be a more accurate term), but I've called out fairly often due to having a much better time off policy than my wife - so when the kid is sick and can't go to daycare, I tend to pick up 75%+ of the stay-home time with her. I've never had a problem at work, and other dads at work have done the same thing. I literally can't imagine someone giving me shit about it, or a coworker suggesting that it's the woman's/mom's job to stay home with a sick child. I guess it's different in non-software fields?
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      For the most part software dev is roughly results driven. I'd be surprised if your work was happy with you being 20-30% less productive than your coworkers for equal pay.
- panoptispeech 10y ago
  You are right. It's frustrating how often I see a good idea (like mandatory parental leave) being a thing for women instead of a thing for people in general. I wish I could point out the problems with this identity-focused marketing. If I did so in public, using my real identity, I would be fired, or at least receive very harsh feedback. It is depressing to be unable to speak up for my own interests.
thescribe 10y ago
The solution to the gender gap is to fundamentally change how work is done. I'm glad it was that simple.
- nasalgoat 10y ago
  I'm not sure an hour one way or another is really "fundamentally" changing anything. 8-4 or 10-6 vs. 9-5 is pretty normal, actually.
- dlo 10y ago
  I think the employer that is able to accommodate a variety of different schedules, and indirectly, challenges that their employees face in their lives, will be a sought-after place to work. If an employer is trying to attract the best employees, this could be a major competitive advantage. Google can offer superior compensation, but they likely will not be able to offer this due to institutional inertia, people who believe in and are invested in the current system. No employer, especially a startup, has to follow conventional wisdom on how to run a workplace. They could decide to upend things next week if they wanted to.
  - jmcdiesel 10y ago
    It's very true. In my situation, I struggled for years with attendance because my spouse had a seemingly impossible time getting up on a consistent basis to take care of the kids so i can go to work... lots of fights ensued, a even lost a couple of jobs to it (though the employers were mostly kind, and my managers appreciated the situation, but the strict rules of the company basically meant i had to leave) Turns out, my wife has an actual sleeping disorder (DSPD[1]), and my new position, when I came to my managers about it, they worked with me. I work from home now every morning until about noon when I head into the office. If there is a meeting that I need to be in physically in the morning, than I still go in (waking up "early" once in a while is fine, the problem in the past was basically waking up early every day for years) ... it works out for everyone, I end up putting more work in (instead of sitting around for 3 hours before work when i woke up at 6am, now i am working at 6:30 ... then i go in at 12, and work till 5). I'm gladly putting in that extra time, too... as a sort of appreciation for what they are helping me with. It also drives loyalty, and I'm very loyal to both the company AND my managers for working with me. There is literally no downside to the arrangement from anyone's point of view... and it all comes from just being flexible. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
ue_ 10y ago
I wonder if we could close it even further if we let the employees control the means of production.
- js8 10y ago
  I agree with you. Unfortunately feminism is often too self-centered as a leftist ideology so it tends to ignore other classes and other inequalities.
  - ChristianBundy 10y ago
    All struggle is class struggle. Intersectional feminism (egalitarianism?) is supposed to address this, but somehow it tends to miss the mark -- at least in the parts of society that I've been exposed to.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Probably not. There are a few places which already approach this socialist ideal - hedge funds, some management consulting firms and some law firms. In this firms, employees control the means of production because employees are the means of production. Such firms tend to be mostly owned by employees themselves. These firms are not known for being family friendly or having a work life balance. The reason is that these firms are populated by high productivity, high effort individuals. Such people rarely want to work with people less dedicated than themselves, people they rightly think of as underperformers. (I've worked with such people in the past and it's dreadful.) In your proposed world, high productivity employees would likely self segregate into high productivity firms which would not be particularly family friendly. Lower productivity employees who want to take years off from the workforce and put family first would shift into lower productivity firms. This means the same inequality would exist. Women would work at the family friendly firms, their husbands would work at the high productivity firms, and the inequality would continue. (In fact, even in the modern world, inequality of this sort has been the primary driver of inequality growth. https://www.nber.org/papers/w21199 https://www.nber.org/papers/w21199 )
  - ue_ 10y ago
godelski 10y ago
While this is a great solution is many sectors it won't solve anything in others. As a man I love having flexibility in my job. One of the best perks. But you can't do that for a lot of jobs, a lot of high skill jobs too. So while I think we should do this, will it really solve much?
- js8 10y ago
  Which jobs you can't do it for? Isn't this just a matter of "buffering", i.e. having enough people in the place to deal with the unexpected?
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    Well, any sort of job that isn´t strictly associated with pure officework. Something like doctor, nurse, any sort of trade, outside sales, any sort of in-person service, police, fireman, trucking/delivery. Most of these professions employ more people than IT, I believe. Even a lot of other professions have certains times of the year/situation where you have to be there. For instance, if you're an accountant, during end of year inventories, you have to be around to take a physical inventory. If you're a lawyer or judge, you have to show up to court.
    - godelski 10y ago
      Not only do you need to show up, but you need to show up at certain times. It would be a mess if doctors or judges just came in when they felt like it. Though a counter point I can see lawyers having flexible schedules, except for court appearances. I think most jobs will require some time being in the location, it is just about if you can change what those hours are. But just from the list you mentioned and the ones I was thinking of, are the jobs that cannot be flexible more male dominated?
      - jimmywanger 10y ago
        Well, the previous comment I was replying to had a caveat that was this applies to jobs that "weren't customer facing". If you take that away, most of the jobs that need you to be at a certain place and certain time require a certain amount of physical labor. At the risk of igniting a gender war (which I have accused of on this board), men on average are stronger than women are. If you're talking about jobs with a large physical component, men generally gravitate to/are more effective at those jobs.
rrherr 10y ago
Also relevant? "Why Some Men Pretend to Work 80-Hour Weeks" https://hbr.org/2015/04/why-some-men-pretend-to-work-80-hour-weeks https://hbr.org/2015/04/why-some-men-pretend-to-work-80-hour...
- tbihl 10y ago
  Cool. The end of the article reminds me of a somewhat recent cheating scandal that the US Navy had at one of its huge schools. The Navy adjusts its tests to be harder if pass rates get too high, which was the case at a base where instructors were passing answer keys to one another (ongoing certification tests, it seems.) The cheating led to higher pass rates and harder tests until eventually it was impossible to pass the test by just studying. Similarly, the only way to have a life at these jobs is by cheating on the appearance of hours worked. I would say nearly the majority of my colleagues now are big savers who plan to get their money and then leave to have families for about this same reason.
latenightcoding 10y ago
This is just an ad for the site "werk" disguised as an article . Also, Erin Fahs should really consider a better chair.
- godelski 10y ago
  Good eye. 20 paragraphs and 11 mentions of the website. Native advertising, but it does bring up a good point. Though I think overstated in its effectiveness.
- lbotos 10y ago
  I thought that NYT had to add a disclaimer when it's sponsored content? If that's true, then this might just be lazy reporting? I'm all for putting an end to native ads, but we have to admit any press about something is effectively an ad.
  - harryh 10y ago
    Obligatory link to PG's essay on corporate PR: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
  - Natsu 10y ago
    > If that's true, then this might just be lazy reporting? It's not easy to tell the difference, given that it will pretty much always be easier for them to spin a press release into an article than to find something to write about.
- unethical_ban 10y ago
  Should reporting never focus on a product or service?
wtf_is_up 10y ago
This thinly veiled advert for Werk doesn't explain how someone working remotely while caring for children will still be outperformed by someone without children working remotely. How is this meant to close "the gender gap"?
- angry_napkin 10y ago
  The answer to this "problem" isn't fair to a generation that was never taught life isn't fair. So we'll continue to get articles like this I guess.
dibstern 10y ago
In some jobs, this just isn't practical. I know of a law firm that has the best employment record & situation for women, but is suffering because so many are working part time and/or working from home. It's made the firm less competitive and undesirable for a merger.
- pdabbadabba 10y ago
  But what about its effect on recruiting and retention? For most law firms those are both huge issues -- and in many cases much more important than the two factors you mentioned.
dibstern 10y ago
ITT: Programmers / Sysadmins who are in an industry ideally suited for remote work. Other industries are not so suited to this.
- amyjess 10y ago
  On the contrary, industries that can be converted to a shift work model are also suited to this. Vox did a similar analysis to the NYT last year [0], and one thing they pointed out was that the wage gap among pharmacists nearly went away when pharmacies changed from being independent one-man shops to being part of large chains such as Walmart and CVS that hire pharmacists to work staggered shifts. The Walmartization of professions results in higher wages for women. [0] http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explained-real http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explain...
will_pseudonym 10y ago
Also, get more women into the military, oil refineries, etc.
- drawnwren 10y ago
  These jobs are the opposite of flexible schedules.
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  Don't forget about sanitation work.
_yosefk 10y ago
By "a" gender gap they ought to imply that there's more than 2 genders, otherwise there can between zero and one gaps so it has to be "the" gap; or else they refer to "women>men" and "men>women" as 2 different gaps. This makes me wonder if they care about all of those gaps equally (don't women dominate higher education already? wanna close that gap, too?)
CptJamesCook 10y ago
As an average-looking man from an average family, if I want to attract a woman I need to be successful. The more successful I become, the higher quality of woman I can get. For a woman, extra career success will not boost her attractiveness in the same way it will for me. This is a huge incentive. If women don't have the same incentives to work hard as men, how can they achieve the same level of success?
- beachstartup 10y ago
  > As an average-looking man from an average family, if I want to attract a woman I need to be successful. The more successful I become, the higher quality of woman I can get. be careful with this line of thinking. if all you're looking to do is attract a mate with all that money, you're better off investing that time into acting lessons, music lessons, and athletic training. or you might find out the hard way that being a charismatic, guitar-playing tri-athlete is going to land you a higher quality and more loyal mate than $10 million in the bank ever will.
  - CptJamesCook 10y ago
    I think it's important to improve oneself in every way, including fitness, demonstrable skills like guitar, and interpersonal skills (charisma). I wasn't stating that only success matters, just that it is an additional factor and this is motivational.
- paulcole 10y ago
  This is all insane. So much so that I'm not sure it is serious. An "average family"? Do you live in The Great Gatsby? If this is a serious comment, you really need to reexamine how you interact with and feel about women.
  - CptJamesCook 10y ago
    I've spent much of my life examining this, and I happen to believe this is the world we live in. Are you suggesting that women are not in any way attracted to success?
amyjess 10y ago
Vox did a similar article last year: http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explained-real http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explain... I'm glad to see that more sources are coming to the same consensus on the subject.
ihsw 10y ago
So this confirms that men get paid more because they actually work more -- very much confirming the gender gap is a myth. Perhaps we should be pushing the idea that the traditional family unit is the best contributor to pursuing a successful career rather than chasing the unattainable goal of convincing employers to accommodate single parents.
whitemale 10y ago
http://www.chicksontheright.com/audi-accidentally-disproves-its-entire-gender-wage-gap-commercial/ http://www.chicksontheright.com/audi-accidentally-disproves-... > @Audi You pay your female employees less than males? You know that's against the law, right? > @TueborFrog When we account for all the various factors that go into pay, women at Audi are on par with their male counterparts. I think that says it all. Instead of worrying about wages, how about letting people do what they want and maybe fix the broken work culture that favours people who pretend to work hard?

77 points by nishs 10y ago

The article puts a strong emphasis in how (truly) flexible schedules benefit women but I think it applies just as well to men, particularly once you have children.

wmccullough 10y ago
Precisely. The flexibility would be helpful irrespective of gender. It says a lot about our culture (or lack thereof) that we even have this issue to start with.
- mpweiher 10y ago
  And that we find it to be an issue once it's a problem for women, whereas as long as it was a problem just for men it was perfectly fine.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    When people followed the gender roles of "women stay home and raise children; men leave their kids behind and go to work", neither gender had much overlap between employment and child care. Societal acceptance of men as performing child care lags behind societal acceptance of women as performing paid employment, so it's inevitable that the issues inherent in combining child care and paid employment have hit women first. It's important to raise awareness that this is an issue which affects both genders, but I wouldn't ascribe any malice to the fact that it first gained attention as an issue affecting women.
    - lostsock 10y ago
      Beautifully put!
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    No, that's nonsense and you are projecting your own insecurities onto this issue.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    That's mostly because of other men in a male dominated workplace. It is statistically not going to be a woman that they're lying to. That pesky toxic masculinity hurts men quite a bit, but a lot of men seem invested in maintaining it. Changing this status quo benefits everyone.
cperciva 10y ago
Indeed. The article cites the stigma of being the woman who can't come in to work because her child threw up -- but there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up.
- dangerlibrary 10y ago
  I remember reading (found it: [0]) that men tend to lie about these situations and claim they have something not-childcare-related to do, whereas women are more likely to be honest about the reason for their absence. [0]: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975 http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2015.0975
  - smelendez 10y ago
    That's fascinating. I wonder if it's true of absences from the workforce, as well. My suspicion is that "adventurous" reasons for taking time away from a typical career path--playing professional poker, sailing around the world, touring with a band--are rewarded in the job search, especially in men, while reasons like child or elder care are punished, especially in women. I'm not convinced that reflects who's actually going to be a valuable, committed employee.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  > there's far more stigma attached to being the man who can't come in to work because his child threw up. I'm pretty spoiled ("privileged" might be a more accurate term), but I've called out fairly often due to having a much better time off policy than my wife - so when the kid is sick and can't go to daycare, I tend to pick up 75%+ of the stay-home time with her. I've never had a problem at work, and other dads at work have done the same thing. I literally can't imagine someone giving me shit about it, or a coworker suggesting that it's the woman's/mom's job to stay home with a sick child. I guess it's different in non-software fields?
  - sheepmullet 10y ago
    For the most part software dev is roughly results driven. I'd be surprised if your work was happy with you being 20-30% less productive than your coworkers for equal pay.
panoptispeech 10y ago
You are right. It's frustrating how often I see a good idea (like mandatory parental leave) being a thing for women instead of a thing for people in general. I wish I could point out the problems with this identity-focused marketing. If I did so in public, using my real identity, I would be fired, or at least receive very harsh feedback. It is depressing to be unable to speak up for my own interests.

thescribe 10y ago

The solution to the gender gap is to fundamentally change how work is done. I'm glad it was that simple.

nasalgoat 10y ago
I'm not sure an hour one way or another is really "fundamentally" changing anything. 8-4 or 10-6 vs. 9-5 is pretty normal, actually.
dlo 10y ago
I think the employer that is able to accommodate a variety of different schedules, and indirectly, challenges that their employees face in their lives, will be a sought-after place to work. If an employer is trying to attract the best employees, this could be a major competitive advantage. Google can offer superior compensation, but they likely will not be able to offer this due to institutional inertia, people who believe in and are invested in the current system. No employer, especially a startup, has to follow conventional wisdom on how to run a workplace. They could decide to upend things next week if they wanted to.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  It's very true. In my situation, I struggled for years with attendance because my spouse had a seemingly impossible time getting up on a consistent basis to take care of the kids so i can go to work... lots of fights ensued, a even lost a couple of jobs to it (though the employers were mostly kind, and my managers appreciated the situation, but the strict rules of the company basically meant i had to leave) Turns out, my wife has an actual sleeping disorder (DSPD[1]), and my new position, when I came to my managers about it, they worked with me. I work from home now every morning until about noon when I head into the office. If there is a meeting that I need to be in physically in the morning, than I still go in (waking up "early" once in a while is fine, the problem in the past was basically waking up early every day for years) ... it works out for everyone, I end up putting more work in (instead of sitting around for 3 hours before work when i woke up at 6am, now i am working at 6:30 ... then i go in at 12, and work till 5). I'm gladly putting in that extra time, too... as a sort of appreciation for what they are helping me with. It also drives loyalty, and I'm very loyal to both the company AND my managers for working with me. There is literally no downside to the arrangement from anyone's point of view... and it all comes from just being flexible. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

ue_ 10y ago

I wonder if we could close it even further if we let the employees control the means of production.

js8 10y ago
I agree with you. Unfortunately feminism is often too self-centered as a leftist ideology so it tends to ignore other classes and other inequalities.
- ChristianBundy 10y ago
  All struggle is class struggle. Intersectional feminism (egalitarianism?) is supposed to address this, but somehow it tends to miss the mark -- at least in the parts of society that I've been exposed to.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
Probably not. There are a few places which already approach this socialist ideal - hedge funds, some management consulting firms and some law firms. In this firms, employees control the means of production because employees are the means of production. Such firms tend to be mostly owned by employees themselves. These firms are not known for being family friendly or having a work life balance. The reason is that these firms are populated by high productivity, high effort individuals. Such people rarely want to work with people less dedicated than themselves, people they rightly think of as underperformers. (I've worked with such people in the past and it's dreadful.) In your proposed world, high productivity employees would likely self segregate into high productivity firms which would not be particularly family friendly. Lower productivity employees who want to take years off from the workforce and put family first would shift into lower productivity firms. This means the same inequality would exist. Women would work at the family friendly firms, their husbands would work at the high productivity firms, and the inequality would continue. (In fact, even in the modern world, inequality of this sort has been the primary driver of inequality growth. https://www.nber.org/papers/w21199 https://www.nber.org/papers/w21199 )
- ue_ 10y ago

godelski 10y ago

While this is a great solution is many sectors it won't solve anything in others. As a man I love having flexibility in my job. One of the best perks. But you can't do that for a lot of jobs, a lot of high skill jobs too. So while I think we should do this, will it really solve much?

js8 10y ago
Which jobs you can't do it for? Isn't this just a matter of "buffering", i.e. having enough people in the place to deal with the unexpected?
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  Well, any sort of job that isn´t strictly associated with pure officework. Something like doctor, nurse, any sort of trade, outside sales, any sort of in-person service, police, fireman, trucking/delivery. Most of these professions employ more people than IT, I believe. Even a lot of other professions have certains times of the year/situation where you have to be there. For instance, if you're an accountant, during end of year inventories, you have to be around to take a physical inventory. If you're a lawyer or judge, you have to show up to court.
  - godelski 10y ago
    Not only do you need to show up, but you need to show up at certain times. It would be a mess if doctors or judges just came in when they felt like it. Though a counter point I can see lawyers having flexible schedules, except for court appearances. I think most jobs will require some time being in the location, it is just about if you can change what those hours are. But just from the list you mentioned and the ones I was thinking of, are the jobs that cannot be flexible more male dominated?
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      Well, the previous comment I was replying to had a caveat that was this applies to jobs that "weren't customer facing". If you take that away, most of the jobs that need you to be at a certain place and certain time require a certain amount of physical labor. At the risk of igniting a gender war (which I have accused of on this board), men on average are stronger than women are. If you're talking about jobs with a large physical component, men generally gravitate to/are more effective at those jobs.

rrherr 10y ago

Also relevant? "Why Some Men Pretend to Work 80-Hour Weeks" https://hbr.org/2015/04/why-some-men-pretend-to-work-80-hour-weeks https://hbr.org/2015/04/why-some-men-pretend-to-work-80-hour...

tbihl 10y ago
Cool. The end of the article reminds me of a somewhat recent cheating scandal that the US Navy had at one of its huge schools. The Navy adjusts its tests to be harder if pass rates get too high, which was the case at a base where instructors were passing answer keys to one another (ongoing certification tests, it seems.) The cheating led to higher pass rates and harder tests until eventually it was impossible to pass the test by just studying. Similarly, the only way to have a life at these jobs is by cheating on the appearance of hours worked. I would say nearly the majority of my colleagues now are big savers who plan to get their money and then leave to have families for about this same reason.

latenightcoding 10y ago

This is just an ad for the site "werk" disguised as an article . Also, Erin Fahs should really consider a better chair.

godelski 10y ago
Good eye. 20 paragraphs and 11 mentions of the website. Native advertising, but it does bring up a good point. Though I think overstated in its effectiveness.
lbotos 10y ago
I thought that NYT had to add a disclaimer when it's sponsored content? If that's true, then this might just be lazy reporting? I'm all for putting an end to native ads, but we have to admit any press about something is effectively an ad.
- harryh 10y ago
  Obligatory link to PG's essay on corporate PR: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- Natsu 10y ago
  > If that's true, then this might just be lazy reporting? It's not easy to tell the difference, given that it will pretty much always be easier for them to spin a press release into an article than to find something to write about.
unethical_ban 10y ago
Should reporting never focus on a product or service?

wtf_is_up 10y ago

This thinly veiled advert for Werk doesn't explain how someone working remotely while caring for children will still be outperformed by someone without children working remotely. How is this meant to close "the gender gap"?

angry_napkin 10y ago
The answer to this "problem" isn't fair to a generation that was never taught life isn't fair. So we'll continue to get articles like this I guess.

dibstern 10y ago

In some jobs, this just isn't practical. I know of a law firm that has the best employment record & situation for women, but is suffering because so many are working part time and/or working from home. It's made the firm less competitive and undesirable for a merger.

pdabbadabba 10y ago
But what about its effect on recruiting and retention? For most law firms those are both huge issues -- and in many cases much more important than the two factors you mentioned.

dibstern 10y ago

ITT: Programmers / Sysadmins who are in an industry ideally suited for remote work. Other industries are not so suited to this.

amyjess 10y ago
On the contrary, industries that can be converted to a shift work model are also suited to this. Vox did a similar analysis to the NYT last year [0], and one thing they pointed out was that the wage gap among pharmacists nearly went away when pharmacies changed from being independent one-man shops to being part of large chains such as Walmart and CVS that hire pharmacists to work staggered shifts. The Walmartization of professions results in higher wages for women. [0] http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explained-real http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explain...

will_pseudonym 10y ago

Also, get more women into the military, oil refineries, etc.

drawnwren 10y ago
These jobs are the opposite of flexible schedules.
CptJamesCook 10y ago
Don't forget about sanitation work.

_yosefk 10y ago

By "a" gender gap they ought to imply that there's more than 2 genders, otherwise there can between zero and one gaps so it has to be "the" gap; or else they refer to "women>men" and "men>women" as 2 different gaps. This makes me wonder if they care about all of those gaps equally (don't women dominate higher education already? wanna close that gap, too?)

CptJamesCook 10y ago

As an average-looking man from an average family, if I want to attract a woman I need to be successful. The more successful I become, the higher quality of woman I can get. For a woman, extra career success will not boost her attractiveness in the same way it will for me. This is a huge incentive. If women don't have the same incentives to work hard as men, how can they achieve the same level of success?

beachstartup 10y ago
> As an average-looking man from an average family, if I want to attract a woman I need to be successful. The more successful I become, the higher quality of woman I can get. be careful with this line of thinking. if all you're looking to do is attract a mate with all that money, you're better off investing that time into acting lessons, music lessons, and athletic training. or you might find out the hard way that being a charismatic, guitar-playing tri-athlete is going to land you a higher quality and more loyal mate than $10 million in the bank ever will.
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  I think it's important to improve oneself in every way, including fitness, demonstrable skills like guitar, and interpersonal skills (charisma). I wasn't stating that only success matters, just that it is an additional factor and this is motivational.
paulcole 10y ago
This is all insane. So much so that I'm not sure it is serious. An "average family"? Do you live in The Great Gatsby? If this is a serious comment, you really need to reexamine how you interact with and feel about women.
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  I've spent much of my life examining this, and I happen to believe this is the world we live in. Are you suggesting that women are not in any way attracted to success?

amyjess 10y ago

Vox did a similar article last year: http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explained-real http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12108126/gender-wage-gap-explain... I'm glad to see that more sources are coming to the same consensus on the subject.

ihsw 10y ago

So this confirms that men get paid more because they actually work more -- very much confirming the gender gap is a myth. Perhaps we should be pushing the idea that the traditional family unit is the best contributor to pursuing a successful career rather than chasing the unattainable goal of convincing employers to accommodate single parents.

whitemale 10y ago

http://www.chicksontheright.com/audi-accidentally-disproves-its-entire-gender-wage-gap-commercial/ http://www.chicksontheright.com/audi-accidentally-disproves-... > @Audi You pay your female employees less than males? You know that's against the law, right? > @TueborFrog When we account for all the various factors that go into pay, women at Audi are on par with their male counterparts. I think that says it all. Instead of worrying about wages, how about letting people do what they want and maybe fix the broken work culture that favours people who pretend to work hard?