5 ms·

I hope you realize the job of the president is to instruct these agencies on how to conduct their operations. Don't defend people (CBP employees) which are are

I hope you realize the job of the president is to instruct these agencies on how to conduct their operations. Don't defend people (CBP employees) which are are acting immorally, and possibly illegally. The Nazis said they were "just doing their job", and that defense did not stand up at the Nuremberg trials. Anyone who enforces orders of questionable legality is part of the problem (such as those executing these race or religion based searches). Edit: formatting

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Can we not make the leap from searches at border checkpoints (a major issue in and of itself) to murdering 6 million people in every thread? It's a valid concern but that kind of language immediately turns people off and tilts the entire discussion one way.
- jackmott 10y ago
  sorry, we will keep making that leap as long as the crazy person osnpresident because we all worry some approximation of that could happen now.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    If you can provide any evidence that Trump is looking to commit genocide, most people would be happy to know.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - tobltobs 10y ago
      "Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?"
      - aaron-lebo 10y ago
        That's obviously really stupid, but John McCain jokingly sang "bomb bomb bomb Iran" about a decade ago while campaigning. I don't want to make light of that statement or be pedantic but that's not genocide. I have no idea what Trump thinks he would nuke to target ISIS, but coming from a guy who said he'd make Mexico pay for a wall and at times is incoherent, that strikes me less as a plan and more of the kind of dumb thing he says pretty regularly. I do believe he has enough of a traditional base around him like Pence to prevent that from happening, but that may be too optimistic. Still haven't seen anything which suggests he wants to target a race or group of people for eradication, though.
        tobltobs 10y ago
        Trump wasn't joking when he was talking about using nukes. And looking at his current senior staff Iran seems to be a reasonable target for hitting ISIS. And if he nukes Iran it is really pedantic to argue if this is a genocide or not.
        tobltobs 10y ago
        > who said he'd make Mexico pay for a wall. Why are you sure he will not do that? Could be easily done by an tax on Mexican imports. Didn't you think the Muslim ban was a joke also?
        temp-dude-87844 10y ago
        A tariff, duty, import tax, or whatever you want to call it, is paid by the domestic (US) consumer on the imported good. Out of the price paid by the US consumer for the Mexican product, the sticker price is paid to the Mexican producer, while an extra amount equal to the original price times the tariff rate is paid by the US consumer to the US government.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- brndnmtthws 10y ago
  Won't stop until that man is deposed.
- yardie 10y ago
  Well they didn't start with the ovens. In the beginning it was the branding and isolationism (them and us), then the detainments and asset seizures, then the interments. And once you run out of space for interments...ovens.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Civil liberties advocates have been gently coddling people's feels for years now in hopes of persuading people of the existence of a problem. Personally I don't feel like there's time for that any more. Just last night I found that white nationalists are planning a 4 mile march from Oakland to Berkeley that's going to go right past my home in a few weeks. At their last big rally in sacramento last year, 10 people were stabbed, all by the neo-Nazi side. So I don't have the luxury of avoiding the comparison because it is literally coming to my doorstep.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    That sucks, it really does. I can only say that I attended a community college, El Centro, and it was pretty shocking for me to watch the 7/7 attacks last year and see a black supremacist gun down a cop by a pillar I used to stand against and another in an intersection I've crossed hundreds of times. Strange place for it to happen, too, because that always was a very diverse place. Clearly something is off-kilter, but I don't think Trump is the main or only problem (his rise was only made possible by some other ugly societal things we've got going on), and I still think comparing him to Hitler does history and his victims a disservice. It also gives you nowhere to go if he's not Hitler. If some genocidal lunatic ever does come along, people will just wave it off with "oh, like Trump? lol". I don't like defending Trump but I do believe it is crucial that we keep a level head here and make clear, honest comparisons.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      Well, you can think what you like but I'm raising an alarm about this after 15 years of patient observation, so I think your equanimity is misplaced. I'm also old enough to be your parent and this isn't my first rodeo. As you're well-educated in politics, you're well-positioned to process this: https://independent.academia.edu/JamesScaminaci https://independent.academia.edu/JamesScaminaci I can vouch for the bulk of this material through my own independent study over the last 15 years. RW extremism is my anthropology hobby.
  - masonic 10y ago
    At their last big rally in sacramento last year, 10 people were stabbed, all by the neo-Nazi side. That's not how it was reported. There was no violent contact until "black bloc" rioters armed with clubs rushed the cordon.[0] There were two reported stab wounds that required a trip to hospital. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nationalist-rally-stabbings-california https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nation...
legostormtroopr 10y ago
Who is excusing it? All people are saying is that this is a failing of previous administrations. Bush set a lot of these rules up, and Obama strengthened them.
- bestnameever 10y ago
  It doesn't really matter that bush set up these rules. We will be hearing more and more about it if they're being applied more and more frequently now against US citizens, especially given the political current climate.
  - legostormtroopr 10y ago
    Sure lets critique it, but lets not blame Trump for something he inherited.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  If he's just a poor innocent victim of his mean ol' predecessors who enacted these horrid policies, he could do away with them. If he doesn't, then he gets to inherit all the present-day responsibility for them. Or if you'd like I can send a microphone to you so you can record your comments. "BUT... BUT... OBAMA! BUT... BUT... OBAMA!" is going to be the bass line of my chart-topping dance track later this year.

aaron-lebo 10y ago

Can we not make the leap from searches at border checkpoints (a major issue in and of itself) to murdering 6 million people in every thread? It's a valid concern but that kind of language immediately turns people off and tilts the entire discussion one way.

jackmott 10y ago
sorry, we will keep making that leap as long as the crazy person osnpresident because we all worry some approximation of that could happen now.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  If you can provide any evidence that Trump is looking to commit genocide, most people would be happy to know.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - tobltobs 10y ago
    "Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?"
    - aaron-lebo 10y ago
      That's obviously really stupid, but John McCain jokingly sang "bomb bomb bomb Iran" about a decade ago while campaigning. I don't want to make light of that statement or be pedantic but that's not genocide. I have no idea what Trump thinks he would nuke to target ISIS, but coming from a guy who said he'd make Mexico pay for a wall and at times is incoherent, that strikes me less as a plan and more of the kind of dumb thing he says pretty regularly. I do believe he has enough of a traditional base around him like Pence to prevent that from happening, but that may be too optimistic. Still haven't seen anything which suggests he wants to target a race or group of people for eradication, though.
      - tobltobs 10y ago
        Trump wasn't joking when he was talking about using nukes. And looking at his current senior staff Iran seems to be a reasonable target for hitting ISIS. And if he nukes Iran it is really pedantic to argue if this is a genocide or not.
      - tobltobs 10y ago
        > who said he'd make Mexico pay for a wall. Why are you sure he will not do that? Could be easily done by an tax on Mexican imports. Didn't you think the Muslim ban was a joke also?
        temp-dude-87844 10y ago
        A tariff, duty, import tax, or whatever you want to call it, is paid by the domestic (US) consumer on the imported good. Out of the price paid by the US consumer for the Mexican product, the sticker price is paid to the Mexican producer, while an extra amount equal to the original price times the tariff rate is paid by the US consumer to the US government.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
brndnmtthws 10y ago
Won't stop until that man is deposed.
yardie 10y ago
Well they didn't start with the ovens. In the beginning it was the branding and isolationism (them and us), then the detainments and asset seizures, then the interments. And once you run out of space for interments...ovens.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Civil liberties advocates have been gently coddling people's feels for years now in hopes of persuading people of the existence of a problem. Personally I don't feel like there's time for that any more. Just last night I found that white nationalists are planning a 4 mile march from Oakland to Berkeley that's going to go right past my home in a few weeks. At their last big rally in sacramento last year, 10 people were stabbed, all by the neo-Nazi side. So I don't have the luxury of avoiding the comparison because it is literally coming to my doorstep.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  That sucks, it really does. I can only say that I attended a community college, El Centro, and it was pretty shocking for me to watch the 7/7 attacks last year and see a black supremacist gun down a cop by a pillar I used to stand against and another in an intersection I've crossed hundreds of times. Strange place for it to happen, too, because that always was a very diverse place. Clearly something is off-kilter, but I don't think Trump is the main or only problem (his rise was only made possible by some other ugly societal things we've got going on), and I still think comparing him to Hitler does history and his victims a disservice. It also gives you nowhere to go if he's not Hitler. If some genocidal lunatic ever does come along, people will just wave it off with "oh, like Trump? lol". I don't like defending Trump but I do believe it is crucial that we keep a level head here and make clear, honest comparisons.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    Well, you can think what you like but I'm raising an alarm about this after 15 years of patient observation, so I think your equanimity is misplaced. I'm also old enough to be your parent and this isn't my first rodeo. As you're well-educated in politics, you're well-positioned to process this: https://independent.academia.edu/JamesScaminaci https://independent.academia.edu/JamesScaminaci I can vouch for the bulk of this material through my own independent study over the last 15 years. RW extremism is my anthropology hobby.
- masonic 10y ago
  At their last big rally in sacramento last year, 10 people were stabbed, all by the neo-Nazi side. That's not how it was reported. There was no violent contact until "black bloc" rioters armed with clubs rushed the cordon.[0] There were two reported stab wounds that required a trip to hospital. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nationalist-rally-stabbings-california https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nation...

legostormtroopr 10y ago

Who is excusing it? All people are saying is that this is a failing of previous administrations. Bush set a lot of these rules up, and Obama strengthened them.

bestnameever 10y ago
It doesn't really matter that bush set up these rules. We will be hearing more and more about it if they're being applied more and more frequently now against US citizens, especially given the political current climate.
- legostormtroopr 10y ago
  Sure lets critique it, but lets not blame Trump for something he inherited.
ubernostrum 10y ago
If he's just a poor innocent victim of his mean ol' predecessors who enacted these horrid policies, he could do away with them. If he doesn't, then he gets to inherit all the present-day responsibility for them. Or if you'd like I can send a microphone to you so you can record your comments. "BUT... BUT... OBAMA! BUT... BUT... OBAMA!" is going to be the bass line of my chart-topping dance track later this year.