4 ms·

> a repeat of the BART mistake. Probably a different mistake but BART uses 5'6" rail gauge. Standard US rail gauge is 4'8.5". This means that every railcar, ev

> a repeat of the BART mistake. Probably a different mistake but BART uses 5'6" rail gauge. Standard US rail gauge is 4'8.5". This means that every railcar, every everything, has to be custom made with no economies of scale. No one can remember why they did this.

privong 10y ago
> BART uses 5'6" rail gauge. Standard US rail gauge is 4'8.5". Interesting. When I saw this, I wondered if it was to match another standard gauge that was judged to be superior. But, looking at the list of rail gauges on wikipedia[0], 5'6" is the gauge for railways in India ("Indian broad gauge" to be specific). The initial BART rolling stock seems to have been build by Rohr, Inc.[1], which is based in California. So it seems unlikely that they were benefiting from any economies of scale from Indian rail construction. Rohr also seems to have built rolling stock for the Washington, D.C. metro, which uses a near-standard 4'8.25" gauge[2]. Perplexing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc. (you'll need manually add the period to the end of the URL, because of how HN converts this into a link) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro#System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro#System
- mtkd 10y ago
  if, 150+ years ago, when we were building all the rail infrastructure in India, someone said - that there would be no fast line from Delhi to London in 100 years - people would think you were nuts - right now it's tricky to get from London to Berlin, India is near impossible
  - ingsoc79 10y ago
    It most likely would have happened, if the airplane hadn't been invented. Now you can fly from Delhi to London in 8-9 hours.
- CalChris 10y ago
  There is the theory that Rohr was an aerospace company and didn't know about standards; I find this hard to believe. Some say there was a study about car dynamics. But the article I read said that no one actually remembers. The design docs are in a transportation library in Monterey and they apparently don't say. Here's a collection of theories, all plausible with no confirming evidence: http://myprogressiverailroading.com/rail_forum/maintenance_of_way_mow/f/3295/t/21974 http://myprogressiverailroading.com/rail_forum/maintenance_o... BTW, Pittsburg uses 5'6" as well. DC Metro is even more ridiculous. It's only 1/4" different from standard gauge.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- desdiv 10y ago
  >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc. (you'll need manually add the period to the end of the URL, because of how HN converts this into a link) FYI, the URL encoding for "." is "%2E", so replacing period with %2E works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc%2E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc%2E
sumbry 10y ago
It is pretty common knowledge why they did this. Original plans for the BART had it traveling over the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin County. Due to high winds across the bridge, they wanted a wider gauge to prevent trains from tipping.
- gsnedders 10y ago
  Given standard gauge trains transverse plenty of bridges which frequently have high-winds, that seems… dubious.
- CalChris 10y ago
  Yes, this is a popular theory but there's no evidence in the fossil record.
  - yellowapple 10y ago
    Is there evidence in any direction? This really sounds like the most plausible hypothesis, to me at least.
    - Groxx 10y ago
      With strange, custom-construction-requiring stuff like this, I tend to wonder how much of it would be explained by "help self/a buddy get rich". It's practically guaranteeing that there's going to be a single company supporting it for all time, which is a potentially-extremely-lucrative business deal. If that's the case, obfuscating the reasons for these decisions is a rational move.
      - ern 10y ago
        It's a bit cynical to say this but running HSR on an incompatible network protects it against future politicians who may seek to sabotage it by merging networks.
        gsnedders 10y ago
acchow 10y ago
Wtf is happening? I want to believe that the different gauge standards is a bit like the proliferation of programming languages in software - they solve their slightly different problem space well. Is this true?

privong 10y ago

> BART uses 5'6" rail gauge. Standard US rail gauge is 4'8.5". Interesting. When I saw this, I wondered if it was to match another standard gauge that was judged to be superior. But, looking at the list of rail gauges on wikipedia[0], 5'6" is the gauge for railways in India ("Indian broad gauge" to be specific). The initial BART rolling stock seems to have been build by Rohr, Inc.[1], which is based in California. So it seems unlikely that they were benefiting from any economies of scale from Indian rail construction. Rohr also seems to have built rolling stock for the Washington, D.C. metro, which uses a near-standard 4'8.25" gauge[2]. Perplexing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc. (you'll need manually add the period to the end of the URL, because of how HN converts this into a link) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro#System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro#System

mtkd 10y ago
if, 150+ years ago, when we were building all the rail infrastructure in India, someone said - that there would be no fast line from Delhi to London in 100 years - people would think you were nuts - right now it's tricky to get from London to Berlin, India is near impossible
- ingsoc79 10y ago
  It most likely would have happened, if the airplane hadn't been invented. Now you can fly from Delhi to London in 8-9 hours.
CalChris 10y ago
There is the theory that Rohr was an aerospace company and didn't know about standards; I find this hard to believe. Some say there was a study about car dynamics. But the article I read said that no one actually remembers. The design docs are in a transportation library in Monterey and they apparently don't say. Here's a collection of theories, all plausible with no confirming evidence: http://myprogressiverailroading.com/rail_forum/maintenance_of_way_mow/f/3295/t/21974 http://myprogressiverailroading.com/rail_forum/maintenance_o... BTW, Pittsburg uses 5'6" as well. DC Metro is even more ridiculous. It's only 1/4" different from standard gauge.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
desdiv 10y ago
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc. (you'll need manually add the period to the end of the URL, because of how HN converts this into a link) FYI, the URL encoding for "." is "%2E", so replacing period with %2E works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc%2E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr,_Inc%2E

sumbry 10y ago

It is pretty common knowledge why they did this. Original plans for the BART had it traveling over the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin County. Due to high winds across the bridge, they wanted a wider gauge to prevent trains from tipping.

gsnedders 10y ago
Given standard gauge trains transverse plenty of bridges which frequently have high-winds, that seems… dubious.
CalChris 10y ago
Yes, this is a popular theory but there's no evidence in the fossil record.
- yellowapple 10y ago
  Is there evidence in any direction? This really sounds like the most plausible hypothesis, to me at least.
  - Groxx 10y ago
    With strange, custom-construction-requiring stuff like this, I tend to wonder how much of it would be explained by "help self/a buddy get rich". It's practically guaranteeing that there's going to be a single company supporting it for all time, which is a potentially-extremely-lucrative business deal. If that's the case, obfuscating the reasons for these decisions is a rational move.
    - ern 10y ago
      It's a bit cynical to say this but running HSR on an incompatible network protects it against future politicians who may seek to sabotage it by merging networks.
      - gsnedders 10y ago

acchow 10y ago

Wtf is happening? I want to believe that the different gauge standards is a bit like the proliferation of programming languages in software - they solve their slightly different problem space well. Is this true?