9 ms·

My gripe with wholefoods goes beyond the price. I take issue with their business ethics and general operating philosophy. It's a pretty typical appeal to the "c

My gripe with wholefoods goes beyond the price. I take issue with their business ethics and general operating philosophy. It's a pretty typical appeal to the "conscious" consumer that will only look skin deep when making a decision about products. It's a kind of slacktivism, wholefoods marketing team tells me that they care about the environment and the small farmer so surely buying from them is the most ethical consumption. I believe it is misleading though. The company's only goal is profit and this is very evident when you hear their libertarian CEO speak. He's a sociopath preying on the good will of middle class liberals. Combine that with the exploitation of cheap prison labour as a perfect example of the company's principles in execution and it just leaves a bad taste with those seasonal organic vegetables. Edit: If you really want to get tasty, fresh, sustainable, local, and organic food then join or start a local food co-operative. This gets everyone a fair price for high quality products along with paying people fairly for their produce and work. It's also completely democratic so all practices are decided upon by the members and not just by some megalomanic CEO or greedy shareholders.

_delirium 10y ago
I'm not a huge fan of the CEO in general, but I get the impression he really does care about the organic-foods part. There are more liberals who fall in that category, yes, but there are definitely libertarians into it as well. What's probably more unusual is that he's a wealthy big business type of libertarian who also likes organic foods, while the libertarians into organic food are more often the off-the-grid type.
jmcdiesel 10y ago
A company's goal should be profit. Why is profit a bad word so often? They aren't abusing customers or employees to get that profit... both of those groups regularly praise the company... so I don't see the problem in seeking as much profit as you can. Thats how free market works, right? And if they go to far in the name of profit, they will see it reflected and profits drop... on a site created around startups, its interesting that the "profit" as a bad word is still a thing here... You can want to make as much profit as possible while ALSO doing the right thing ethically.
- specialist 10y ago
  My libertarian bestie teases me "The problem with you Liberals is you can't tolerate hypocrisy." No one cares if Whole Foods makes piles of cash. Just don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
  - ambicapter 10y ago
    Is he saying we'd be better off tolerating hypocrisy?
    - jsolson 10y ago
      I'm not the friend (nor am I a libertarian), but YES. Don't tolerate hypocrisy for hypocrisy's sake, but recognize when it's pragmatic to tolerate it to either move things in the correct direction or simply to limit how far they slide in the wrong direction.
      - pshposh 10y ago
        Could you provide an example of such a situation? How do people get this wrong?
        specialist 10y ago
        Negotiating with some one who is both anti abortion and pro execution. Do you refuse to work with that person (eg prison reform, women's health)? Or do you focus on shared interests, win/win?
        WillPostForFood 10y ago
        That's inconsistency, not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is someone who is anti-abortion, but would get an abortion because they had a trip to Hawaii planned, or is anti-execution, but is pushing a prosecutor to go for the death penalty in the case of their child's murder. But I do agree that there is a case to be made to work those people, if their views align with yours, even though they are personally hypocrites. On the other hand, maybe not the most trustworthy allies.
specialist 10y ago
Yup. Greenwashing. I vote with my dollars, as much as possible. Fortunately, I have many local choices (farmers markets, local mini chains, coops). When traveling, I've been pleasantly surprised by Sprouts. It's like Trader Joe's doing Whole Foods. (I haven't checked on their politics, labor practices.)
- leesalminen 10y ago
  Sprouts is pretty highly regarded here in Boulder, CO. Many students I know have worked there and were generally satisfied. I've been a happy customer for years with little to no complaints.
  - jakeogh 10y ago
    Tucson too. We love our Sprouts.
cardamomo 10y ago
Thanks for mentioning food cooperatives as another way to purchase high-quality food. I think the cooperative movement has a long way to go on terms of making cooperative ownership and purchasing broadly accessible, but it's a uniquely empowering business model in today's world.
sanderjd 10y ago
I agree that the marketing is incredibly off-putting, but I reject that wanting to buy high quality fresh food for a reasonable price premium without participating in a local food co-op makes me a dupe or a bad person.
puddintane 10y ago
Well said, in Colorado we have farmers markets during the summer which allows for farmers to directly sell to consumers and make more money while the customer gets a better deal as well! However during the winter I go to Natural Grocers, or Sprouts because the price is always cheaper (here at least it is much cheaper then Whole Foods).
vidoc 10y ago
I think that the marketing of WF and the image they try to convey is the most pathetic aspect of this company in how it contrasts with the social model they encourage. There's a certain feel of hyperreality in those stores, their hiring guidelines must be a great read. I'm fascinated by how cashiers always appear to me as the same prototype of fabricated cool-and-polite-and-supernice robots. A few smiles, a little bit of small talk, sometimes a bit more chat on random things "oh I love that stuff! it's sooooo good!". I feel like WF is trying to tell me that those guys are not working here, they are just super cool and they are helping the distribution of organic food which is good for my health and important for the well being of the world. Oh and WF must be an NGO actually. A few times a year, they do some fundraising at the cash register. It typically happens in the ultimate phase of the credit card translation (before the single/double inside/outside question). Cool cashier usually loudly asks "Whether I would like to donate some money to awesome charity helping orphaned children with cancer". The technique is pure genius both in terms of timing and leverage of peer pressure. The two options available are looking like a monster to the people in line behind, or directly financing the advertisement of whole foods as an ethical leader.
- anamoulous 10y ago
  > I feel like WF is trying to tell me that those guys are not working here, they are just super cool and they are helping the distribution of organic food which is good for my health and important for the well being of the world. > The two options available are looking like a monster to the people in line behind Sure or maybe you are paranoid.
  - vidoc 10y ago
    I'm not paranoid. Checkout charity is not a new thing and its dynamics are well known. There is awareness in the retail industry that there are a few elementary dos and donts that can prevent shoppers (or paranoids like me) from feeling trapped and pressured. Safeway and Walgreens both prompt shoppers discreetly on the credit card terminal screen and that's all good. The reason WF does it this way seems very obvious to me.
Overtonwindow 10y ago
Agreed completely. Farm local. Shop local.
wybiral 10y ago
> It's also completely democratic so all practices are decided upon by the members and not just by some megalomanic CEO or greedy shareholders. Speaking from experience, there's definitely slacktivism in cooperatives too. I've seen several of them basically turn into UNFI/KeHE outlet stores selling the same big brands that are marketing themselves as "conscious" alternatives rather than smaller local vendors (because they can't make the same deals). Not all coops are created equal and not all of them are looking out for their customers, local vendors, or employees. Yeah, there are good ones out there run by people who care about the products and customers, but don't think that just because it has "coop" in the title that it's one of them.
- kiliantics 10y ago
  I agree there are some bad co-ops out there. My co-op is more radical than most, there is no hired labour and every member has to put in about 3 hours work each month to make up for it. The idea is - and I think this should generally be the goal of co-ops in any industry - that the management/administration middlemen of the food industry have become too powerful and are taking advantage of both consumers and producers. By taking back this power and sourcing the food directly for ourselves as a collective, we allow everyone to take part in organising how the system works and benefit equally from the exchange it's based on. Or at least, we try to get as close to that as possible.
  - wybiral 10y ago
    And I love that idea. But I worked at a coop that didn't work that way at all. Maybe it was that the board and management had largely remain unchanged for years or that there was investment larger than normal ownership which may have incentivized board decisions towards returns and expansion. Regardless, there are multiple types from farmer coops, consumer coops, to employee/worker coops out there. and even within those divisions they're all handled in very different ways with different goals. If you're with one of the good ones, that's awesome, help them all you can. But be careful assuming that they all operate similarly.

_delirium 10y ago

I'm not a huge fan of the CEO in general, but I get the impression he really does care about the organic-foods part. There are more liberals who fall in that category, yes, but there are definitely libertarians into it as well. What's probably more unusual is that he's a wealthy big business type of libertarian who also likes organic foods, while the libertarians into organic food are more often the off-the-grid type.

jmcdiesel 10y ago

A company's goal should be profit. Why is profit a bad word so often? They aren't abusing customers or employees to get that profit... both of those groups regularly praise the company... so I don't see the problem in seeking as much profit as you can. Thats how free market works, right? And if they go to far in the name of profit, they will see it reflected and profits drop... on a site created around startups, its interesting that the "profit" as a bad word is still a thing here... You can want to make as much profit as possible while ALSO doing the right thing ethically.

specialist 10y ago
My libertarian bestie teases me "The problem with you Liberals is you can't tolerate hypocrisy." No one cares if Whole Foods makes piles of cash. Just don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
- ambicapter 10y ago
  Is he saying we'd be better off tolerating hypocrisy?
  - jsolson 10y ago
    I'm not the friend (nor am I a libertarian), but YES. Don't tolerate hypocrisy for hypocrisy's sake, but recognize when it's pragmatic to tolerate it to either move things in the correct direction or simply to limit how far they slide in the wrong direction.
    - pshposh 10y ago
      Could you provide an example of such a situation? How do people get this wrong?
      - specialist 10y ago
        Negotiating with some one who is both anti abortion and pro execution. Do you refuse to work with that person (eg prison reform, women's health)? Or do you focus on shared interests, win/win?
        WillPostForFood 10y ago
        That's inconsistency, not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is someone who is anti-abortion, but would get an abortion because they had a trip to Hawaii planned, or is anti-execution, but is pushing a prosecutor to go for the death penalty in the case of their child's murder. But I do agree that there is a case to be made to work those people, if their views align with yours, even though they are personally hypocrites. On the other hand, maybe not the most trustworthy allies.

specialist 10y ago

Yup. Greenwashing. I vote with my dollars, as much as possible. Fortunately, I have many local choices (farmers markets, local mini chains, coops). When traveling, I've been pleasantly surprised by Sprouts. It's like Trader Joe's doing Whole Foods. (I haven't checked on their politics, labor practices.)

leesalminen 10y ago
Sprouts is pretty highly regarded here in Boulder, CO. Many students I know have worked there and were generally satisfied. I've been a happy customer for years with little to no complaints.
- jakeogh 10y ago
  Tucson too. We love our Sprouts.

cardamomo 10y ago

Thanks for mentioning food cooperatives as another way to purchase high-quality food. I think the cooperative movement has a long way to go on terms of making cooperative ownership and purchasing broadly accessible, but it's a uniquely empowering business model in today's world.

sanderjd 10y ago

I agree that the marketing is incredibly off-putting, but I reject that wanting to buy high quality fresh food for a reasonable price premium without participating in a local food co-op makes me a dupe or a bad person.

puddintane 10y ago

Well said, in Colorado we have farmers markets during the summer which allows for farmers to directly sell to consumers and make more money while the customer gets a better deal as well! However during the winter I go to Natural Grocers, or Sprouts because the price is always cheaper (here at least it is much cheaper then Whole Foods).

vidoc 10y ago

I think that the marketing of WF and the image they try to convey is the most pathetic aspect of this company in how it contrasts with the social model they encourage. There's a certain feel of hyperreality in those stores, their hiring guidelines must be a great read. I'm fascinated by how cashiers always appear to me as the same prototype of fabricated cool-and-polite-and-supernice robots. A few smiles, a little bit of small talk, sometimes a bit more chat on random things "oh I love that stuff! it's sooooo good!". I feel like WF is trying to tell me that those guys are not working here, they are just super cool and they are helping the distribution of organic food which is good for my health and important for the well being of the world. Oh and WF must be an NGO actually. A few times a year, they do some fundraising at the cash register. It typically happens in the ultimate phase of the credit card translation (before the single/double inside/outside question). Cool cashier usually loudly asks "Whether I would like to donate some money to awesome charity helping orphaned children with cancer". The technique is pure genius both in terms of timing and leverage of peer pressure. The two options available are looking like a monster to the people in line behind, or directly financing the advertisement of whole foods as an ethical leader.

anamoulous 10y ago
> I feel like WF is trying to tell me that those guys are not working here, they are just super cool and they are helping the distribution of organic food which is good for my health and important for the well being of the world. > The two options available are looking like a monster to the people in line behind Sure or maybe you are paranoid.
- vidoc 10y ago
  I'm not paranoid. Checkout charity is not a new thing and its dynamics are well known. There is awareness in the retail industry that there are a few elementary dos and donts that can prevent shoppers (or paranoids like me) from feeling trapped and pressured. Safeway and Walgreens both prompt shoppers discreetly on the credit card terminal screen and that's all good. The reason WF does it this way seems very obvious to me.

Overtonwindow 10y ago

Agreed completely. Farm local. Shop local.

wybiral 10y ago

> It's also completely democratic so all practices are decided upon by the members and not just by some megalomanic CEO or greedy shareholders. Speaking from experience, there's definitely slacktivism in cooperatives too. I've seen several of them basically turn into UNFI/KeHE outlet stores selling the same big brands that are marketing themselves as "conscious" alternatives rather than smaller local vendors (because they can't make the same deals). Not all coops are created equal and not all of them are looking out for their customers, local vendors, or employees. Yeah, there are good ones out there run by people who care about the products and customers, but don't think that just because it has "coop" in the title that it's one of them.

kiliantics 10y ago
I agree there are some bad co-ops out there. My co-op is more radical than most, there is no hired labour and every member has to put in about 3 hours work each month to make up for it. The idea is - and I think this should generally be the goal of co-ops in any industry - that the management/administration middlemen of the food industry have become too powerful and are taking advantage of both consumers and producers. By taking back this power and sourcing the food directly for ourselves as a collective, we allow everyone to take part in organising how the system works and benefit equally from the exchange it's based on. Or at least, we try to get as close to that as possible.
- wybiral 10y ago
  And I love that idea. But I worked at a coop that didn't work that way at all. Maybe it was that the board and management had largely remain unchanged for years or that there was investment larger than normal ownership which may have incentivized board decisions towards returns and expansion. Regardless, there are multiple types from farmer coops, consumer coops, to employee/worker coops out there. and even within those divisions they're all handled in very different ways with different goals. If you're with one of the good ones, that's awesome, help them all you can. But be careful assuming that they all operate similarly.